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Post by delticman on Apr 23, 2015 11:30:32 GMT 12
If I lived at Croydon, I'd be proud to say so. It's just a city with multi-stories within the big city and it has a tramway system. But to Aviation, it's the glamour of aviation in the thirties, those record breaking flights to the Colonies and Imperial Airways. Gone forever but in New Zealand, we still have RM31!
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Post by pjw4118 on Oct 12, 2015 7:39:34 GMT 12
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Post by Damon on Oct 12, 2015 9:38:48 GMT 12
The 5th image the guy standing front and centre is my uncle Jack Edwards, to his right is the Squadron Leader De Lange. The second image is a shot after the 5th image as the group have been told that they have finished (or not)taking photos of the group. Flt Edwards and his gunner WO Hoppe were killed in action 10.05.44 at Lakunai and crashed in the Great Harbour .25 Squadron leaving the zone on 20th May 1944.
Must go out to Seagrove some time,anyone want to come along?
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Post by pjw4118 on Oct 12, 2015 16:49:07 GMT 12
Sure , and lets get an OK from the owner for a close tour. What about going on to Helvetia camp afterwards
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Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 12, 2015 19:17:10 GMT 12
Should we arrange a group visit? I was recently rung up by a chap who grew up there during the war - he has a lot of good stories too. I have his details somewhere.
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Post by pjw4118 on Oct 17, 2015 13:53:52 GMT 12
That was probably Max Poole , I have been talking to him and have his book Seagrove -Wheres That. A good read . I was surprised about the number of buildings/hangars that were there.
Sure lets try for a visit. I am happy to ask Max.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 17, 2015 14:46:33 GMT 12
Correct, it was indeed Max.
I'd quite like to go, if we can make it after my Aussie trip?
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Post by Damon on Oct 17, 2015 19:13:17 GMT 12
If possible if there is interest in going to Seagrove in group maybe in November or February would be most desirable by me..
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Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 17, 2015 20:46:09 GMT 12
I'm away in Australia in November.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 2, 2016 14:27:35 GMT 12
Everything I have ever read before on the SBD-3 model Dauntless dive bombers at Seagrove was that MAG-14 (Marine Air Group 14) was based at Seagrove with the aircraft and after a period they handed them to the RNZAF. I was thinking about the term Marine Air Group and wondered how many squadrons came under that unit. It turns out, lots. It was a bit like an RAF Group, with many squadrons. I contacted my friend Jack Cook who's a Marine Corps expert and made some enquiries. Jack sent this list of the squadrons under MAG-14 at the time:  So wondering as to which squadron or squadrons were involved at Seagrove we dug a bit furthr. The results are interesting and confusing. MAG-14 was based in the Solomon Islands, and it was apparently just some of their personnel, not aircraft, that came to New Zealand, for rest and recuperation. They embarked on the 17th of April 1943 for Auckland, and on arrival they were encamped in Victoria Park, Auckland. This from Jack:  In July 1943 four officers and 50 enlisted men of MAG-14 at Victoria Park were attached, their records state, "for temporary aviation duty with the Royal New Zealand Air Force".  Now as you see that record states is "Men of this command cooperated with the personnel of VMF-121 and VMSB-141 in carryign out the operations of the air field." I looked them up and it seems VMSB-141 was also part of MAG-14 but VMF-121 was actually part of MAG-13. Does this mean VMSB-141 made its way to New Zealand independently of the other members of MAG-14 who were on R&R at Victoria Park? And was this the same for VMF-121? There were 18 SBD-3's loaned to the RNZAF so that constitutes the make up of one operational squadron's compliment of aircraft, yet we see here two Dauntless squadrons and other personnel from MAG-14 (I imagine the 54 men from Victoria Park were those who ran the station, cooks, medics, admin, etc??). So why two operational squadrons for the job and each from a different Marine Air Group I wonder. Let's not forget Seagrove had a third squadron there, No. 25 Squadron RNZAF which also formed in July 1943, so it's obvious that the personnel of VMSB-141 and VMF-121 were there to train the kiwis in the operation of the Dauntless, and their maintenance crews in how to keep the type flying. I just find it really interesting it took two USMC squadrons to train one kiwi squadron. Were maybe the two USMC units very much reduced in size for this mission and been perhaps just a detachment from the parent squadrons in the Pacific? I also wonder where did the 18 aircraft come from? adf serials simply says MAG-14 as do other sources but were they previously operated by VMSB-141? Did some of them come to NZ with VMF-121? We could I guess trace back the serials to their previous US units, has anyone done that? It would be interesting to see the history of each as they'd probably seen a fair bit of combat. I'd love to hear thoughts on this. |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 24, 2018 12:10:35 GMT 12
An interesting snippet, up till it was gazetted in RNZAF Routine Orders on the 31st of July 1942, RNZAF Station Seagrove was actually previously known as RNZAF Station Karaka. I'm unsure why the name was changed but I prefer the newer name of Seagrove.
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Post by starr on Apr 24, 2018 14:10:03 GMT 12
It is situated in Seagrove which is part of the Karaka area.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 24, 2018 14:14:09 GMT 12
Yes, but it is interesting that it was originally officially RNZAF Station Karaka and then officially the name was changed to RNZAF Station Seagrove.
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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Apr 24, 2018 14:14:21 GMT 12
So which of those two names was around before the other one?  Or to put it another way....which of those two names has the earliest usage in the area? |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 21, 2019 20:06:33 GMT 12
Yesterday Bevan Dewes and I had the privilege to visit the site of the WWII airfield at RNZAF Station Seagrove, thanks to our guide Max Poole who kindly arranged the visit, and gave us a guided tour. This was pretty special for both Bevan and I because we are both very interested in the WWII RNZAF history. Originally based on this airfield were Curtiss P-40 Kittyhawks and North American Harvards from No. 15 (Fighter) Squadron RNZAF. The station was part of the air defence network for Auckland, and as a dispersed station it made use of a lot of the existing homes around the airfield, plus a lot of buildings and huts were erected, but now most of them are all gone. After the P-40's vacated the station hosted Douglas SBD-3 Dauntless dive bombers of MAG-14, which was a US Marine Corp air group. When they departed back to the Pacific they left some of their SBD's and No. 25 (Dive Bomber) Squadron RNZAF formed there and used the same aircraft. They got newer SBD-4's eventually and departed to the Pacific too. At that point No. 26 (DB) Squadron formed there using the same aeroplanes, but they were quickly taken off the Dauntless, moved to Ardmore and converted to P-40's, following a policy change. After about a week they reformed as No. 20 (Fighter) Squadron. Seagrove was closed, and became a reserve station with a caretaker staff. Max's father was one of the Works Officers given that task and so Max moved there ad spent 1944-45 living there at Seagrove. The airfield and seafront beside it became an air-to-ground firing range and almost daily P-40's and Corsairs came over from Ardmore to do gunnery training there. Avenger target tugs also were see over Seagrove. Seagrove is nowadays a privately owned commercial horse breeding stud. During our visit the ground was extremely soggy and muddy after lots of rain, and the wind coming off the Manukau Harbour was bitingly cold. But regardless it was a brilliant opportunity for us both to drink in the history of the place, and we even found the remains of a taxiway next to where the maintenance hangars once stood, and some other concrete on the main runway. The runway was never lifted Max says, nature and farming has just buried it with pasture land. By the way Max has written a book with all the history of the airfield, called "Seagrove? Where's That?" It is a very small production run book but he is planning to do another order soon. It is about NZ$90.00 I think he said.      Max (left) and Bevan braving the bitterly cold wind and locating the taxiway       The revetment hangars were in the side of this hill, dug in as revetments and then roofed over and camouflaged |
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Post by theo1943 on Feb 28, 2022 9:39:16 GMT 12
Hi Everyone, it is fantastic to find this post on Seagrove. My Great Uncle was Theo MacLean de Lange, hence my interest in Seagrove. Would anyone be able to possibly put me in touch with Max Poole as I would love to be able to purchase a copy of his book, "Seagrove... where's that?"? Also how does one get in touch with the owner of the property to be able to visit the site? Thanks so much for your help. Kind regards, Jonathan
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 28, 2022 13:13:21 GMT 12
I will send you an email, Jonathan.
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Post by shorty on Feb 28, 2022 13:48:40 GMT 12
Did the persistent rumour regarding aircraft remains get an airing on your visit Dave?
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 28, 2022 15:24:33 GMT 12
No I don't think anything like that was mentioned, Shorty.
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Post by 30sqnatc on Feb 28, 2022 18:45:11 GMT 12
Theres is a long post on the history of the secret Seagrove airfield at www.facebook.com/ReopenDevonportTunnelsThere may also be mention of missing aircraft (squeezed in around all the explosives!) on the FB site |
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