A mystery Corsair

[Peter Lewis]

I have recently came across this photo of a (war surplus?) RNZAF Corsair. The date, place and identity are not known.
Looking at the code '23' on the cowl, I would guess we are looking at NZ5x23.

This gives the following possibilities:
NZ5323 - Stored at Rukuhia. Sold by WARB tender #1704 to H J Larsen of Palmerston North 2Mar48. Scrapped at Rukuhia
NZ5523 - Stored at Rukuhia. Sold by WARB tender #1704 to H J Larsen of Palmerston North 2Mar48. Scrapped at Rukuhia
NZ5623 - To storage at Rukuhia Oct45. Became INST127 1Feb49 Hamilton ATC. Sold by GSB tender 19Jan53.

These ones would seem not be candidates:
NZ5223 - Shot down by AA fire & cr into sea off Duke of York Island 4Aug44, ex-Bougainville.
NZ5423 - Mid-air coll with Corsair NZ5408 in bad weather on return Rabaul-Green Island, 15Jan45, cr into sea.

As one idea, is it possible to detect visually the difference between a F4U-1, a F4U-1D and a FG-1D? If this is so, and we can identify the Corsair version in the pic, this would eliminate/confirm some of the above possible identities.

Any comments or ideas welcome.

[Bruce]

I would suggest the location is still at Rukuhia, the macracarpa hedges seem familiar.. (but certainly not conclusive!) The aircraft appears to be sitting on some form of pad though, and the little vehicle barrier fence in the foreground seems unusual - maybe it is somewhere like a park or something?
the 23 code doesnt necessarily mean that the serial end in 23, a lot of Corsairs carried nose codes totally unrelated to the serial.
The aircraft appears to be an FG-1D, the canopy is clear blown, without the framing members seen on the Vought examples.

[Peter Lewis]

Possibly then NZ5623, which is the only FG-1 in the above list - anyone here from the Hamilton ATC in the early 1950s able to comment?

[flyjoe180]

It looks as though it has hte red meatball in the roundel, that could suggest the aircraft has returned from Japan and is a later model FG-1?

[Bruce]

Except that none of the FG-1s sent to Japan came back again, all were burnt at Bofu. Maybe this was during reactivation for Japan or an extra one prepared but not sent? However overpainting the serial is very odd in this instance!

[30sqnatc]

I have several articles taken from Wings (Sep 72, Mar 73, Aug 74 and Jul 80) that show the Rukuhia graveyard but none show aircraft in the position shown in the picture.

Jul 80 article Corsair by David Duxbury states the clear blown canopies were fitted to FG-1D's

Paul

[Dave Homewood]

The mix of roundels is odd, note the Pacific style roundel with bars under the wing. The fuselage roundel seems to have been painted over one with bars.

That almost looks like a road in the background, and I wonder (fingers crossed) could this possibly be the Cambridge Corsair in Alf Walsh's front yard?

[Peter Lewis]

Lotto ticket Dave?

My personal so-far-unprovable thought is that it is the Hamilton ATC aircraft. Either way, it's an interesting find that hopfully, in time, somebody can confirm.

[Dave Homewood]

I do not know if No. 7 Squadron ATC (Hamilton) have always had their base in the present Dey Street site, but I suspect they probably have as that area was all suedo military in WWII (right nextdoor was the munitions factory, now the Dey Street Campus of the university). If the unit was there in WWII, then this doesn't, to me, look like that place. The area has no doubt cnaged a lot, but it just doesn't look like the right landscape to me. Did they perhaps keep their Corsair elsewhere, like at Ruhkuhia?

[corsair67]

The clear blown canopy also makes me think it it's an FG-1D, but the lack of rocket stubs under the outer wings makes me think it's a hybrid.

Many later F4U-1Ds also had the clear blown canopy, but I don't think any of those served in the RNZAF.

If you could zoom in to read what type designation is painted on the rudder, that'd tell you for sure!

[Dave Homewood]

For what it's worth there's a good photo of FG-1D NZ5623 on the top of page 134 of Warren Russell's book on RNZAF Corsair paint schemes.

It wears a nearly new paint scheme in a rather darker shade than most, with barred Pacific RNZAF roundels and thin finflash. The photo has been dated to August-September 1945 when it flew with No. 5 S.U.

There is no number on the cowl.

The colours of the Corsairs with 5SU at Los Negros were painted overall Gloss Sea Blue (see pages 92-93 of Warren's book) and did not have a lighter colour beneath the plane, but the tailwheel doors and just forward of the wing the lighter tones suggest your Corsair did.

As the war ended at the period the photo of NZ5623 in the book was taken I cannot see it having been repainted between then and going into storage in October 1945, as it would have been a bit pointless. Especially since the Gloss Sea Blue paint looks fairly recent in the photo.

So, I think you can discount this as being NZ5623, unless you can prove that after being removed from RNZAF service and while an instructional airframe it was repainted.

[Peter Lewis]

Fair enough. The mystery continues.

[Dave Homewood]

There are two photos of NZ5523 on page 160 of the same book. It looks more like the colour scheme and its paint is much more worn looking than NZ5623 above. But these photos were taken as early as 30 June 1944 and this Ardmore based training Corsair wears the codes RK-A. It is in the standard US Navy 4-tone scheme, with Pacific barred roundels and thin finflash.

[Dave Homewood]

Peter, do you recall where you got that photo? I take it you didn't photograph it yourself?

The thing is I was just looking through my file folder of RNZAF Corsair photos that i have collected by right clicking and saving, just for my reference of course, and that same photo is already in there. I have a feeling, judging by other photos in the folder 'created' the same day of 23 Squadron Corsairs, it may have gone out in one of Malcolm Laird's Ventura Publications newsletters. However I can't see it on his website. He may know more.

[Peter Lewis]

admin said:

Peter, do you recall where you got that photo? I take it you didn't photograph it yourself?.

Bought it on ebay.
The seller knew nothing about it apart from being a New Zealand Corsair.

[Dave Homewood]

Peter, I contacted my mate John Scullin about the photo. His brother-in-law was Jim larsen, the scrappie at Rukuhia, and John lived there for a while back in the days of the scrapyards. He took a look at the photo and says this:

"...But it does look like the one that was sitting in front of the trees alongside a hangar or shed next to the Waikato Aero Club - it was in the shadows of the trees with the wings folded and looked in pretty good nick, no one talked much about it the only story I heard about it was that it was an ATC aircraft . The instructors at the time June Howden and Guy Robertson would or Should know what the story was. ( 1948 )"

I don't know if that helps, but if you want to contact June Howden (who must be an interesting lady as she was one of our five ATA girls in WWII, and a prewar pilot) she married Bob Gummer and I believe they live in Northland somewhere. I'm not sure about Guy Robertson - didn't he used to have a topdressing company at Hamilton?

[Peter Lewis]

admin said:

the only story I heard about it was that it was an ATC aircraft .

So that resurrects the possibility of it being NZ5623/INST127 ?

Guy Robertson ran Robertson Air Service, Hamilton - one of the 'big four' (James, Robertson, Rural, WAW) in the heyday of aerial topdressing. Last I heard, he too had retired to the Bay of Islands.

[Bruce]

I would say that the paint finish on the Corsair has been "modified" by the ATC, which could explain the apparent paint finish anomolies. Obviously the fin flash and fuselage roundel have been overpainted to what was the "current" roundel type at the time - for some reason the under wing barred roundels werent done. The overpainting of the bars from the fuse roundel gives the impression of an intermediate blue area on the fuse sides. the light area behind the cowl, in front of the wing is the where the exhaust gases have discoloured the paintwork and the tailwheel doors may have been swapped with items off another aircraft. Lighting angle and / or coral dust abrasion may explain the slightly lighter appearance of the underside of the wing - the general finish is badly and unevenly faded, as was normal for even the later Corsairs. The absence of rocket stubs may be explained by the fact they are at head height for ATC age kids - they may have been taken off for safety reasons.
Photos of the old aero club hangar area (near where the old tower was) in the prewar days show Marcracarpa hedges in the area nearby (Long gone with the construction of Hangars on the southern side of Steele Rd). I think it is reasonable to assume it is '5623 although still not 100% confirmed.

[30sqnatc]

admin said:

Peter, do you recall where you got that photo? I take it you didn't photograph it yourself?

The thing is I was just looking through my file folder of RNZAF Corsair photos that i have collected by right clicking and saving, just for my reference of course, and that same photo is already in there. I have a feeling, judging by other photos in the folder 'created' the same day of 23 Squadron Corsairs, it may have gone out in one of Malcolm Laird's Ventura Publications newsletters. However I can't see it on his website. He may know more.

Dave,

Since first seeing the photo I've had the feeling that I have seen it before on a chatgroup which inluded a reply describing in detail where it was as the individual recognised the piece of ground it was sitting on. The fact you have a copy of the picture suggests my vague memory maybe correct. All I can add is that is must have been an aircraft modelling group.

[Dave Homewood]

Yes, I wish I could recall where that came from.