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Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 6, 2009 13:01:24 GMT 12
... does it become part of a Fleet Air Arm squadron like the wartime Walrus aboard a crusier did, eg No. 700 Squadron FAA on HMNZS Achilles, etc?
Or do the crew and maintenance staff aboard the ship remain attached to No. 6 (Maritime) Squadron, RNZAF?
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Post by camtech on Oct 6, 2009 13:11:20 GMT 12
Dave,
I believe that the aircraft and maintenance crew still belong to 6 Sqdn, but operational and disciplinary command is vested in the captain of the ship
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Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 6, 2009 13:16:35 GMT 12
Thanks. I know that during the war the RNZAF mechanics who were posted to the RNZN's ships for the Walrus maintenance were officially attached to the FAA but retained their RNZAF uniforms which is a bit odd.
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Post by 30sqnatc on Oct 6, 2009 17:05:22 GMT 12
Thanks. I know that during the war the RNZAF mechanics who were posted to the RNZN's ships for the Walrus maintenance were officially attached to the FAA but retained their RNZAF uniforms which is a bit odd. No it is not. They did not become members of the FAA as that would have required them to be discharged from RNZAF and attested in the RN. They were simply attached for a period. It would have raised some interesting legal issues i.e. can they issue a command to a member of the FAA or RN sailor and similarly could they be issued a lawful command by FAA/RN members. |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 6, 2009 17:24:26 GMT 12
I guess they all came under the one military law, Kings Regulations, didn't they? Or does the Navy do it's own thing?
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Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 6, 2009 19:13:20 GMT 12
The CAF is Chief of Air Force, the ACC is the Air Component Commander and the MCC is the Maritime Component Commander. So, is the MCC a Navy or Air Force officer?
Are these aircraft actually on RNZAF inventory then? Or Navy? Or do they slide from inventory to inventory as their position changes? It's very confusing.
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Post by ErrolC on Oct 6, 2009 19:23:29 GMT 12
6 SQNs Sprites are actually rather complicated, and go something like this: Another complicated example were WWII Swordfish assigned to Merchant Aircraft carriers. The FAA air party signed Ship's Articles, and often put 'Merchant Navy' on the aircraft. |
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Post by lesterpk on Oct 6, 2009 19:44:59 GMT 12
The flights personnel are posted to the ship while at sea, and usually between trips as well as they often on short notice to go back to sea. While posted to the ship they draw seagoing allowances and are administered by the ships office. They even fill out different leave passes.
Phil had it pretty much right regarding the Sprite. Belongs to CAF/ACC who 'loans' it to MCC (Navy Officer) who in turn delegates daily 'ownership' or control to the ships CO.
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Post by phil82 on Oct 6, 2009 20:51:35 GMT 12
I guess they all came under the one military law, Kings Regulations, didn't they? Or does the Navy do it's own thing? In short, yes! Having spent a bit of sea-time on a Leander, I can tell you that the Captain of one of Her Majesty's ships is very close to GOD in terms of his absolute authority. He can do stuff at sea which is uniquely Navy. |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 6, 2009 21:14:55 GMT 12
Thanks everyone for clearing this up.
Is a posting to No. 6 Squadron as maintenance crew different from other squadrons? I mean do you have to pass a seaworthy test and swim test and ensure you have a sound stomach for sailing, etc before getting posted?
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Post by 30sqnatc on Oct 6, 2009 23:14:10 GMT 12
I guess they all came under the one military law, Kings Regulations, didn't they? Or does the Navy do it's own thing? In short, yes! Having spent a bit of sea-time on a Leander, I can tell you that the Captain of one of Her Majesty's ships is very close to GOD in terms of his absolute authority. He can do stuff at sea which is uniquely Navy. Agreed the Captain has quite some power both legal and by tradition. When Dave refered to the FAA I may have understood as I assumed he meant the Royal Navy FAA as we have never had a NZ FAA (or have I mssed this snippet of our defence history  ). The Royal NZ Navy and Royal Navy have a legal methodology to post intercountry with recyprocal legal powers. This certainly does not extent to RNZAF personnel on RN ships today and I don't believe in the past either. |
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Post by phil82 on Oct 7, 2009 11:29:14 GMT 12
If I'm not mistaken, and I'm sure I've read it somewhere, that during WW2, six per cent of all aircrew in the FAA were Kiwi. Given our population at that time, it's big number!
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Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 7, 2009 12:30:32 GMT 12
Around 1000 New Zealanders flew in the FAA. And one-quarter of the British Pacific Fleet's aircrew were kiwis
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Post by phil on Sept 17, 2011 10:20:31 GMT 12
In relation to wearing uniforms, 6 SQN is unique in that it actually has a navy rig that we wear on a day to day basis, but we wear it with 'AIR FORCE' identifiers replacing the 'NAVY' and we wear Air Force rank slides as well of course. We also wear the air force baseball cap or FS cap with it. No silly white hats for us. The uniform is known as GWD, or General Working Dress and is the navy's standard daily seagoing rig. It replaced the old grey overalls a few years ago and is made of the same aramid fibre the flying clothing is made from so is fire retardant.
While at sea we still wear our Air Force blue maintainers overalls rather than the the Navy overalls, since ours have velcro covering the zips etc to prevent the zips damaging the aircraft and velcro closed pockets to limit FOD.
When required to wear SDs or blue working dress we do of course still wear our Air Force uniform, however one funny combination we found ourselves wearing recently was GWDs with SD hats! One of the official navy rigs is GWDs with their white caps, but of course we don't have that as an option. We were doing a parade practice for the fleet review in Brunei and the dress of the day for that was GWDs with white caps, so we had to wear the closest equivalent which was of course our SD caps. Looked a bit funny.
From an administrative point of view, while we are posted to a ship and actually on board, all our admin (leave, pay, allowences etc etc) is maintained through the ship's writers and ship's chain of command for approvals, but when we aren't embarked everything is managed through the SQN like any other air force unit.
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