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Post by htbrst on Aug 23, 2011 11:10:56 GMT 12
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Post by Peter Lewis on Aug 23, 2011 11:19:41 GMT 12
I had an (organized) visit to the Seasprite hangar at Whenuapai a couple of years ago.
Could be wrong, but I seem to remember that the planned disposition was one airframe under heavy maintenance, one undergoing servicing, one airworthy for training and two available for operational use.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 23, 2011 19:08:34 GMT 12
What about all the spares sitting at Woodbourne? Could they get a couple of them operational as gap fillers for when times are tough?
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Post by beagle on Aug 23, 2011 19:34:57 GMT 12
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
i wonder if Kaman have read this and are already giving Big John a ring saying. "These ex Aussie Sprites are still for sale and at a very good price"
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Post by luke6745 on Aug 23, 2011 19:53:13 GMT 12
I like the look of the Lynx Wildcat.....  |
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Post by 11SQNLDR on Aug 23, 2011 22:14:35 GMT 12
Agree, nice looking machine but name conjures up thoughts of a mens deodorant ;D
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Post by lesterpk on Aug 24, 2011 1:54:28 GMT 12
I got $50 that says we buy the ex Aussie ones
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Post by flyjoe180 on Aug 24, 2011 9:17:22 GMT 12
It seems our defence procurement people have not managed to purchase anything which has lasted anything like the intended distance since the Morrison days.
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Post by sqwark2k on Aug 24, 2011 9:42:43 GMT 12
The ex-Aussie ones were plagued with technical inter-compatibility issues that were never resolved hence their dumping from the Oz Navy. If we bought them it'd be another C130 LEP or P3K2 balls up even our most stupidiest politicians should be able to see.
Kaman should be brought to bear if their product is not handling the task it was designed and purchased for.....
S2K
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Post by htbrst on Aug 24, 2011 9:50:54 GMT 12
The ex-Aussie ones were plagued with technical inter-compatibility issues that were never resolved hence their dumping from the Oz Navy. We can always strip them a stash of structural components as we are doing with the 9th NH-90  |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 24, 2011 9:56:14 GMT 12
Joe, I think the CT/4B and the Strikemaster lasted the distance well enough for military trainers that were both worked hard and often. And the 31 years for the Skyhawks was pretty good.
Not much can match the longevity of the C-130's, Orions, Sioux and Iroquios fleets but each of them have a combination of excellent design and excellent maintenance regimes. Each of them (apart from the Sioux) have also had mid-life upgrades such as avionics packages and new wings, etc, so they are hardly the same aircraft purchased in 1965-68.
The Andovers did amazing service considering they were already old and well used when we got them, and they were a cheap purchase that really benefitted the nation, I think the same applied too to the Boeing 727's, and the current 757's.
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Post by flyjoe180 on Aug 24, 2011 10:03:20 GMT 12
Dave, the only recent example in your list there is the 757. When they test aircraft and systems for military suitability and longevity, how do they go about that? Do they take the manufacturer's word for it based on calculations and mathematics or whatever other black magic can be conjured in the high-forehead departments of the world's aircraft design bureaus? Or do they test it until it breaks? And to what extent is an RNZAF test pilot responsible for any operational lapse a type may experience later on? Or does that test pilot/crew just work on immediate suitability feasibility?
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Post by flyjoe180 on Aug 24, 2011 10:05:04 GMT 12
And if anyone can tell me, how does a nation assess the suitability and projected issues/longevity of naval vessels? Because lately this country seems to have bought a few lemons.
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Post by harvard1041 on Aug 24, 2011 10:15:04 GMT 12
It's a tough one - basic rule is 'Never buy the Mark I of anything - and never buy the Mark 10 either' - which in the NZ context means trying to always buy a classic aircraft - something they will have to last 30 - 40 - 50 years at a good price - a very tough call.
The Seasprite was a good choice IMHO - much better than the Lynx ( which was the only other viable Naval Helo at the time ) - but we were always buying an out-of-service helicopter - from a small company - with only limited long term support prospects ie we bought the 'Mark 10'.
...but the future isn't all bad - the RNZAF needs to take on more of the long-term issues with the aircraft - develop their own in-house repairs, jigs etc etc .... well pretty much what was done with the A-4... problem I see is that much of this capability has been removed from the modern day RNZAF .... or their aren't enough people to also introduce - what - Qty 4 new types essentially at once.
There is no money for a new helicopter - Seasprites will have to be maintained in-house. Kaman can / will only provide limited support - at a cost.
Rgds
Hvd1041
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 24, 2011 11:01:52 GMT 12
Dave, the only recent example in your list there is the 757. Which Morrison were you referring to then? I assumed you meant Ian Morrison, CAS in the mid-1960's? You can't judge anything purchased only recently on longevity, surely? |
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Post by pea032 on Aug 24, 2011 11:06:05 GMT 12
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Post by Chris F on Aug 24, 2011 11:08:36 GMT 12
You pay for what you get....and I agree with the above comment from harvard1041 we need to get back that "Kiwi can do attitude"and keep these choppers going with good in-house know how.It's been done before and can be done again.
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Post by guest on Aug 24, 2011 12:42:19 GMT 12
Dave, the only recent example in your list there is the 757. Suggest you do a "757" word search in this document and see how it stacked up. It would be interesting to know what the censored paragraphs adjacent to the comments on the 757 said, but obviously too sensitive for the general public. Given the recommendations and outcome of service to civilian employment in the same report, what are the chances for the 757 if further savings are required? |
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Post by Calum on Aug 24, 2011 14:32:10 GMT 12
The Seasprite was a good choice IMHO - much better than the Lynx ( which was the only other viable Naval Helo at the time ) - but we were always buying an out-of-service helicopter - from a small company - with only limited long term support prospects ie we bought the 'Mark 10'. I'd disagree. The Lynx is still supportable and there is a much larger worldwide user pool . Plus it can be operated in a wider range of sea states than a SH-2G. |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 24, 2011 15:19:09 GMT 12
Don't forget that our ships can't go into those wider range of sea states either though Calum, or they break down. ;D |
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