WWI New Zealand squadron/s?

[Dave Homewood]

I have an understanding that in World War One the French Air Force had squadrons of almost solely American airmen, and that the RFC also had squadrons that were made up of American personnel too.

Did it ever work out that any RFC, RNAS or RAF squadrons or units in WWII ended up either officially or unofficially with substantial numbers of New Zealanders among its aircrew at one time?

Or were they all spread all throughout in ones and twos and there was never a unit with a kiwi cadre'?

[errolmartyn]

"I have an understanding that in World War One the French Air Force had squadrons of almost solely American airmen"
Yes, but one only in the Aviation Militaire - the Lafayette Escadrille.

"and that the RFC also had squadrons that were made up of American personnel too."
No

"Did it ever work out that any RFC, RNAS or RAF squadrons or units in WWII ended up either officially or unofficially with substantial numbers of New Zealanders among its aircrew at one time?"
No

"Or were they all spread all throughout in ones and twos and there was never a unit with a kiwi cadre'?"
Yes

And of course not forgetting the Australian Flying Corps squadrons with both Australian air and ground crew.

Errol

[Dave Homewood]

No British squadrons made up of American personnel? That is contrary to what a member of the League of World War One Aviation Historian’s said the other day on Warbird Radio in an interview.

So, were there any kiwi units or sub-units in the AFC then? (I guess not). Some kiwis also flew with the Indian air force in WWI didn't they?

Regardless of no actual specific units for kiwis, does anyone know which British or Australian or Indian squadron had the most numbers of kiwis within their personnel in WWI?

[errolmartyn]

Dave,

"No British squadrons made up of American personnel? That is contrary to what a member of the League of World War One Aviation Historian’s said the other day on Warbird Radio in an interview."
Who was the member, I wonder, not one of the better informed ones it would seem. While there were Americans serving in some British squadrons there were no American squadrons as such within the RFC, RNAS or RAF.

"So, were there any kiwi units or sub-units in the AFC then? (I guess not)."
No, but about 60 New Zealand air and ground crew served with the AFC

"Some kiwis also flew with the Indian air force in WWI didn't they?"
The Indian Air Force was not established until 1932.

"Regardless of no actual specific units for kiwis, does anyone know which British or Australian or Indian squadron had the most numbers of kiwis within their personnel in WWI?"
For Indian see above. For British/Australian (a) it depends whether you mean in total or at any one time, and (b) even then it would take a considerable amount of time to produce the figures.

Errol

[Dave Homewood]

I think it was in Mike O'Neal's interview, when he was talking about the research he's done over the pst 25 years into men from the state of New Jersey who flew in WWI. Perhaps being on live radio and trying to gte the facts out he had a slip of the tongue, or maybe I misheard it. I'll have to have another listen when I get a chance.

There is some really interesting stuff comes out on Warbird Radio and last week they had a week of WWI history related interviews which were very good. The shows are downloadable on their site.

Regarding India, I should have written Indian Flying Corps, sorry.

Yes I can see it would be quite a job to piece together such stats. I thought it wouldn't hurt to ask in case someone had them at their fingertips. I meant over the whole war, but any at one time might also be interesting, if such details could be found. Not a worry.

[errolmartyn]

"Regarding India, I should have written Indian Flying Corps, sorry."

As far as I can tell the Indian Flying Corps was an informal description of a small (essentially RFC) unit set up within the Indian Army prior to WWI. New Zealander Hugh Reilly, for instance, who played a role in the formation of a Central Flying School in India at the time was an Indian Army officer. Following the outbreak of war its handful of aircraft and officers was posted to Mesopotamia where they formed a Mesopotamia Flight (later to become part of 30 Sqn, RFC), a large part of which consisted of the personnel of the AFC's so-called 'Half Flight'.

Errol

[Dave Homewood]

Cheers. I think NZ's first ever military airman casualty, Burns, was part of that wasn't he?

[errolmartyn]

From my trilogy For Your Tomorrow - A record of New Zealanders who have died while serving with the RNZAF and Allied Air Services since 1915 (Volume Three: Biographies & Appendices):

BURN, Lieutenant William Wallace Allison, mid(2). 1019 (no No. in NZSC); b Gippsland, Vic., Australia 17 Jul 91; to NZ; Chch BHS; student. NZ Army Wgtn (NZSC) & Comm 14 Aug 11, Timaru 21 Feb 12, emb Ionic for UK & att War Office & military cse 8 Aug 12, arr by 18 Sep 12, att Royal Aircraft Factory for instr in aviation manufacturing Nov 13, att RFC & to CFS (5th Cse) as Pilot u/t 25 Jan 14, [civil RAeC Cert 24 Feb 14], end of cse 26 Apr 14, Pilots Badge 28 Apr 14, emb Corinthic for NZ 24 Jul 14, ctba & rtd to NZ 8 Sep 14, Auckland (Adj 3rd Auckland Inf Regt) Dec 14, emb for India 'on loan to Indian Govt' 1 Apr 15, arr Bombay & att RFC & 'A' Flight (aka Mesopotamia Flt) (various a/c types) 1 May 15, kao 30 Jul 15 (Caudron). Basra Memorial - Panels 43 and 65, Iraq. Son of Forbes & Isabel Matilda Burn (née Ayers), Chch, Canterbury. Note: a brother, Robert Bruce Burn, was killed on Gallipoli seven days later, another brother, John Stuart Burn, died in the 'flu epidemic c.late 1918, while a foster-brother, John Russell Burn, was lost overboard from the ferry steamer Maori in 1919. Burn was the first NZ military airman to lose his life. Had war not broken out it was intended that he should superintend aviation in NZ. Often incorrectly stated to be a member of the Australian Flying Corps and its 'Half Flight'.

Errol