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Post by Bruce on Mar 10, 2008 21:27:02 GMT 12
This may be better in the modelling board, (or even the Fightsim board!) but may be of interest from a general historical perspective.
I have just made an impulse purchase on ebay of a Red Roo 1/72 Link trainer kitset - which would have to be one of the smallest "aircraft" kits currently Available!
The Kit is an excellent mixed media (resin plastic and etch) model of an ANT-18 with two choices of wing variants.
as the ANT-18 was the common model used by commonwealth air forces, I assume that at least some of the RNZAF link trainer "fleet" were of this variant. Although I'm not planning on doing anything with the kits for a little while, I'm interested in the history of the Links in RNZAF use. Were they given NZ serials? - the RAAf ones had A13- series. What colour scheme were they painted in - most seemed to have a blue fuselage (there appear to be 2 common shades, dark and medium blue) and the on preserved examples the wings seem to be yellow or silver. The example at TATAM in New plymouth has a red fuselage - is this correct? was the inside standard interior green?
Did they have straight or tapered wings?
Any pictures of RNZAF link trainers in service? I'd also love to see any showing the instructors console as this will need to be scratch built (there are drawings of it with the kit). How many examples are on display in NZ and how complete are they? TATAM and MOTAT have examples, anywhere else?
By all accounts the Links were amazingly complex machines driven by vacuum / pneumatic actuators and valve driven logic "computers" - they are reputedly harder to restore than "real" aircraft. The Link corporation (Brought by Sperry during the early 1940s) originally produced church and cinema organs! thier experience with bellows and pneumatics allowed them to solve the tricky problems associated with making the Links "fly". The company still builds flight simulators today.
Has anyone on the forum ever "flown" one?
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Post by FlyNavy on Mar 10, 2008 23:00:13 GMT 12
If you count RAAF basic flying training then back in late 1967 & early 1968 my basic flight training course flew LINK trainers after hours. If they worked we soon wrecked them by flying the plot off the table. Our flying was unsupervised so this was easy to do. Otherwise for learning procedures of instrument letdown flying - and watching the plot on the table - it had its uses. However the LINK was considered obsolete by then. If we had supervised use of it then it would have been of more benefit most likely. Another thing to do that I think was forbidden (because the plot would quickly leave the table, crashing to the floor) was spinning. Nothing quite like going round and round endlessly in a LINK trainer. :-) The TEACUP ride at DisneyLand reminded me of the old LINK. YAY! From memory we had to have ten hours in the LINK - that was easy if unsupervised. Often this requirement was waived because they were often unserviceable (and likely irrelevant by then). We went on to not bend the Winjeel too much and then the Vampire. Probably by the time the Macchi courses came along (a year later) the LINK would have gone from Basic Flying Training. Here is a great PDF online that explains the LINK trainer I knew (whether it is exactly the same I have no clue but it looks familar apart from the wings and US Army markings): files.asme.org/ASMEORG/Communities/History/Landmarks/5585.pdf (1.8Mb file size)  |
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Post by FlyNavy on Mar 10, 2008 23:23:35 GMT 12
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 12, 2008 13:21:13 GMT 12
There is a Link Trainer at Wigram, somewhere.
I have some photos in old Contact magazines of RNZAF ones I think. Will see if I can find any.
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Post by shorty on Jul 30, 2008 13:34:54 GMT 12
When I was in the ATC in Auckland in the early 60s we had a Link Trainer there. I eventually got to be an "Instructor" on it, It had a blue fuselage, Silver "flying services". Silver Cockpit cover.
Wings were straight with rounded tips. No serials that I can recall.
Good fun for a teenager (pre computer games!)
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Post by sniff on Jul 30, 2008 14:27:20 GMT 12
It ws still there in '73, Shorty, plus another had been added (green, I think?) for spares.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jul 30, 2008 15:26:07 GMT 12
By the way, I did find those photos for Bruce and gave them to him on CD rom. How's the project coming Bruce?
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Post by Bruce on Jul 30, 2008 15:36:57 GMT 12
Its in the to - do pile, but somewhere near the top....
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Post by yak2 on Jul 30, 2008 17:44:47 GMT 12
Has anyone on the forum ever "flown" one? Part of gaining a Class 4 instrument rating (NVMC) in the early 1970's involved several hours on the Link at RVAC at Moorabbin. Stepping out of a near new Beech 23 into a war surplus device that appeared to be a living breathing (wheezing) beast, was quite an experience. Just figuring out all those old fashioned instruments was intimidating in itself. Somehow I managed to qualify on the ADF and VOR. Think the instructor gave me a pass to get rid of me. |
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Post by FlyNavy on Jul 30, 2008 18:00:29 GMT 12
Well at least the steam LINK prepared me for the Vampire Trainer. It was incredible how the left control column obscured the artificial horizon when flying on instruments (simulated). That was my excuse anyway. ;D The 'squeeze brake lever' on control column really helped obscure stuff also.  |
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Post by A4k on Apr 22, 2009 18:01:25 GMT 12
There is a Link trainer at Paraparaumu airport in NZ. I sat in it once in 1987 as a member of No.49 (Kapiti) ATC sqn, but it was in need of repair, so no flying!
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Post by FlyNavy on Apr 24, 2009 9:19:05 GMT 12
a4k, every Link trainer ever built was in serious need of repair. Probablly OK in it early days but... ;D
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Post by A4k on Apr 29, 2009 20:40:32 GMT 12
 ...Interesting that they received their own RAAF A-serial no. in Oz too- the one in P'ram had a number, but don't remember it being an RNZAF serial reg (or just old age creeping up?  ) Evan
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Post by lumpy on Apr 29, 2009 21:27:34 GMT 12
We had a reasonably functional link trainer at our atc sqn too . I have very fond memories of a couple of "flights " with the Willis twins sitting on my lap ( not at the same time of course ! )
Fascinating peices of equipment ! ;D
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Post by A4k on Apr 30, 2009 18:21:03 GMT 12
What squadron were you at?
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Post by planewriting on Sept 11, 2022 17:29:43 GMT 12
Thought I would resurrect a old thread!
Classic Flyers has two Link Trainers on display in the main hangar. One is there for orthodox purposes; namely to be looked at and admired whereas the other ha has a console put in so the kids can play aeronautical computer games. Guess which one is currently undergoing a bit of TLC! Anyway, CEO Andrew Gormlie has asked me to redo (as in rewrite) the A4 size display board giving a bit of history about the type's service in New Zealand. I see my father spent time in then in the RNZAF, the RAF and also NAC. He has named the RNZAF instructors; P/O Kean, P/O Duffey, L.A.C. Davidson, A.C.L Sparrow and L.A.C. Liecester.
I'm not sure from where the two at Classic Flyers were sourced but does anyone out there have any idea as to how many Link Trainers the RNZAF had? Where were the primarily based? How many survive?
Did they carry a constructor's number or RNZAF serial number and if so, where would one look for it on the frame?
Any relevant info would be appreciated.
Thanks, Peter Layne
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Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 11, 2022 21:45:16 GMT 12
Peter, it seems they did have serial numbers, as cited in this tender notice in The Press on 20 October 1958:
7083 - LINK TRAINERS AND SPARES.
(a) 3 Used Link Trainers, Nos. 475, 478, 480; (b) quantity Unused
Spares. Held by Air Dept. (a) Weedons, (b) Te Rapa, and No. 1
Port Depot, Auckland.
I also know the RNZAF got its first Links before WWII, the RNZAF and Auckland Territorial Squadron had one at Hobsonville in 1938.
Every pilot in the RNZAF had to do Link Training and refreshers, so there would have been lots of them, especially on the training stations.
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Post by camtech on Sept 11, 2022 22:07:54 GMT 12
I was asked some time back by the ADF admins to see if I could find information regarding New Zealand Link Trainers.
To date, info is scarce, but I have noted one at Ashburton and was aware of the Tauranga ones. Any further info would be welcome.
They appear to have been numbered in a series with a "D" prefix.
Many years ago, I did some repair work on one and remember that they were quite an intricate machine.
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Post by davidd on Sept 11, 2022 22:24:54 GMT 12
The RNZAF acquired about 37 Links from memory, possibly (as already mentioned) a few just prewar, most of later deliveries fairly early in WW2 (probably all received by late 1941 or thereabouts), and may have acquired a few later models post-war. The serial numbers listed earlier on this thread appear to be manufacturer's serial numbers. They were used at all flying training stations as well as most of the larger operational stations in New Zealand, plus No. 3 OTU in Fiji. However I have never seen a breakdown of the models received, but we certainly had examples of both visual as well as the aircraft without any flying surfaces but with the fully enclosed cockpit and used for "blind" flying. I have a small article on the Links in service with the RAF, USAAF, etc, but nothing much on the various models, nor serial numbers or numbers manufactured.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 11, 2022 22:49:57 GMT 12
Les, as well as Tauranga and Ashburton, there are Link trainers on display at Wigram and MOTAT. Possibly also other museums.
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