Information about my pop.

[scorpiomikey]

Hi guys, im not sure if this is the right place to post this. But ill try it. Recently my dad went up to see his father (my poppy) and discovered he is developing dementia. For a long time ive been wanting to find out information about his experiences during the war, but he always refused to talk about his flying days. And everyone who knew refused to talk too. The only information i have is a couple of vague stories from my dad.
The first is theres a photo out there of a P-40 flying VERY low in front of some hangars at i believe ohakea, or wigram. Apparently this was my pop after it was discovered he was too young to fly, but before he was grounded.
The other is something about him flying as a radio operator in avengers around NZ.
His full name is Hector Achiable(sp? i know his middle name is spelt "wrong") Denton. Hes in his mid 80's.
I would really like to find some records of him and what hes flown in. Maybe even some photos.
Any information that might be out there, or leads or anything would be greatly greatly appreciated. Im not even sure where to start looking.
Thanks guys. If you want any more information ill see what i can get out of the family.

[errolmartyn]

This mayhelp:

www.nzdf.mil.nz/personnel-records/nzdf-archives/

Also, from NZ Society of Genealogist records:

Hector Archibald Denton entered Mangapapa School 2 Feb 31, and again on 6 Feb 39 (presumably he attended another school or schools sometime in between these dates).

Errol

[scorpiomikey]

Thanks.
Little bit more info gleaned from dad.
He grew up in the Gisborne area.
The P-40 shot dad was told by an old guy who knew pop that pop was in the back seat.
He did most of his work as a ground RO.
He left the force in 1946 when his dad died.
He joined late in the war.
He did most of his training at Harewood.
And his middle name was spelled Archiable.

[jonesy]

Hey- I can't give you any info on your family, except to offer some advice.
My father flew Mosquitos in WW2, but we never really talked about it, and had only anecdotal info that had been collected.
He too suffered from dementia, at a time when it wouldve been great to have him telling his grandkids stories about his earlier years. sadly he passed away, and that direct link has been lost.
I've been reasonably fortunate to have had older siblings gather info, and we still have his logbooks.
So gather every scrap of info you can get your hands on, and keep it all together. Sometimes dementia patients have very good long-term memories, but lose all short term, so asking him now might get some results?
Its a shitty thing for families to deal with thats for sure..Good luck with your search.

[errolmartyn]

H A Denton enlisted as an Aircraftman 2nd Class in the 'trade' of aircrafthand on 8 May 1945 (1 day after VE Day).

Errol

[Dave Homewood]

"The P-40 shot dad was told by an old guy who knew pop that pop was in the back seat."

P-40's never had back seats. That is a modern day Warbirds invention (done by Pioner Aero at Ardmore). Back in WWII the space was filled up with radio equipment.

[Dave Homewood]

If he had been flying (both as a trainee before being grounded and later in Avengers as Wireless Operator) as you say, he will have had a Flying Logbook, whch will have information about his flights made.

He's not on my list of No. 30 Squadron members by the way, which is the most complete list around that I know of, so if he was attached to an Avenger unit it must have been No. 31 Squadron or one of the units that used them as tugs.

[baronbeeza]

It appears his service history would be very brief. If he joined as the war was winding down in mid 1945 and got out in 1946 he was only really in the mob for a few months.
I am not sure how much the RNZAF would be prepared to put into training at that stage but I am sure it would have been minimal. He would have done basic recruit training and perhaps been offered a trade. Normally trade training would have taken at least a year certainly in the radio trades.
It was mentioned he was in the trade of 'Aircrafthand' I have to admit it is not one I am familiar with. In my day the aircrafthands were basically glorified civvies who helped out with routine admin duties, - doing mail runs and hangar cleaning etc.

In that role it was quite conceivable he would be attached to a Squadron and got offered rides in the aircraft and the likes.
I believe much of the work at the time would have been based around the winding down of the war effort. De-mobbing personnel and the storage of machinery and equipment.
The guys returning from overseas were probably more interested in other activities..

[scorpiomikey]

Nov 1, 2011 17:20:42 GMT 12 Dave Homewood said:

"The P-40 shot dad was told by an old guy who knew pop that pop was in the back seat."

P-40's never had back seats. That is a modern day Warbirds invention (done by Pioner Aero at Ardmore). Back in WWII the space was filled up with radio equipment.

I beg to differ. There were TP-40E's of which i believe at least 1 came to New Zealand.

Thanks for all the information guys. Unfortunately ive tried talking to pop about it and he wont budge. He just refuses to talk. The only times ive seen him get angry in 25 years was when we tried to get him to talk about his air force days.

[scorpiomikey]

Nov 1, 2011 16:14:48 GMT 12 errolmartyn said:

H A Denton enlisted as an Aircraftman 2nd Class in the 'trade' of aircrafthand on 8 May 1945 (1 day after VE Day).

Errol

Where abouts did you find this information?

[Dave Homewood]

I would very much like to see evidence of a two seat P-40 in the RNZAF in WWII please.

[scorpiomikey]

Nov 2, 2011 14:29:44 GMT 12 Dave Homewood said:

I would very much like to see evidence of a two seat P-40 in the RNZAF in WWII please.

Point out where i said it was an RNZAF aircraft? All i said was pop was in the back seat, and that i had been told about the photo, ive never personally seen it.
However i will be heading out to wigram this weekend to do some more research there.
As for 2 seat P-40's

This photo is from Mcmahan photos. Taken sometime during the 1940's.
www.mcmahanphoto.com/af287--curtisstp-40p-40warhawktrainerphoto.html
All credit to the owner of the photo.

[Dave Homewood]

Well I would be very surprised to see a non-RNZAF P-40 of any type during WWII flying low in front of a hangar at Ohakea or Wigram, as you'd stated, and I would be equally surprised if a two-set P-40 came to New Zealand as you have stated. I'm happy for someone to come up with the evidence. And details of where it came from and why it was here.

[scorpiomikey]

Nov 2, 2011 15:20:17 GMT 12 Dave Homewood said:

Well I would be very surprised to see a non-RNZAF P-40 of any type during WWII flying low in front of a hangar at Ohakea or Wigram, as you'd stated, and I would be equally surprised if a two-set P-40 came to New Zealand as you have stated. I'm happy for someone to come up with the evidence. And details of where it came from and hy it was here.

If i can find the photo i will see what i can do about uploading it.

[Dave Homewood]

Thanks, I'm looking forward to seeing it.

[errolmartyn]

Nov 2, 2011 13:58:17 GMT 12 scorpiomikey said:

Nov 1, 2011 16:14:48 GMT 12 errolmartyn said:

H A Denton enlisted as an Aircraftman 2nd Class in the 'trade' of aircrafthand on 8 May 1945 (1 day after VE Day).

Errol

Where abouts did you find this information?

From the brief entry in an RNZAF register of 1945 enlistments. Full names are not recorded, nor where airmen were first posted.

Errol

[shorty]

Of course one possibility is that the aircraft has been mis identified as you say you have not seen the photo yourself. It is not uncommon for non aeronautical types to lump all single engine aircraft together. In this case maybe it was a Harvard which someone called a Kittyhawk? I was moving a Harvard fuselage once and the number of people who asked me if it was a Spitfire was amazing! So the answer may be as simple as that.
I am prepared to wager my first born that there were NEVER any 2 seat P-40s in NZ until the one we brought back from New Guinea was converted for Darby and Hogan.

[baronbeeza]

'''''''''''' theres a photo out there of a P-40 flying VERY low in front of some hangars at i believe ohakea, or wigram. Apparently this was my pop after it was discovered he was too young to fly, but before he was grounded. '''''''''

'''''' The only times ive seen him get angry in 25 years was when we tried to get him to talk about his air force days. ''''''''

I think Pop may be a legend in his own family.
Your opening statement had me thinking your old fella was a pilot who was removed from training after his true age had been revealed.
You seem to think he was grounded which implies you must have been thinking he was in an aircrew trade. You then go on to say that he was possibly a radio operator in Avengers.

Your dad was in the RNZAF and he would have met people that served during the same period as your pop.

Perhaps you should be asking more questions of your father, I am sure he will know exactly what his father did during the war.
Your father couldn't even give you the correct spelling of his father's name....you have to doubt the other 'facts' he has provided also.

I think there is a very good yarn or bar story in the mix there somewhere.

Many of the guys reading this did time in the mob and we know exactly how it works...

Ask your old man and spare Pop any further embarrassment.

[errolmartyn]

Avengers had a Wireless Operator/Air Gunner crew member - not 'radio' (voice) but morse.

Anyone enlisting as late as May 1945 and demobbed in 1946 almost certainly would not have begun flying training. At that stage of the war there was already a healthy surplus of trained aircrew available and courses were being wound down (the last aircrew trainees for training in Canada, for instance, had sailed as long ago as July 1944).

Errol

[Dave Homewood]

Indeed, pilots who entered training in late 1944 were stood down and sent back to civvie street in many cases because they had too many trained pilots by early 1945.

We do not mean to demean or belittle you Pop in any way Mike, but certain facts are irrefutable and sometimes they get confused with the mists of time. I'm keen to hear what else you can find out, and to see the photo if you get hold of it.