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Post by bell407 on Dec 12, 2011 15:19:26 GMT 12
I want to get my hands on an AIM 9 Sidewinder air to air missile, Does anyone know how many NZ had and what they've done with the ones we had for the A4's?
I don't need a live round, just a blue training round with a seeker would be nice, I heard someone in Hamilton has one.
I've heard that they can be bought for about $240,000 from the US air force but I don't have that money and I don't know if they would send me one even if I did.
Any ideas of where I could get one or if there are any 1/1 scale model kits I could get, it would be an awesome display piece and I can't find anything on Google, but I'm not the best at finding stuff on the internet.
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Post by 30sqnatc on Dec 12, 2011 15:51:47 GMT 12
Fly over Washington in a borrowed airliner and I'm almost certain the US Air Force will give you a missile for free  |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 12, 2011 16:22:24 GMT 12
Member "TurboNZ" made a full scale one a few years back I think, Chris are you out there?
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Post by Barnsey on Dec 12, 2011 17:20:42 GMT 12
righto....... they'll just give them away to anyone!
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Post by bell407 on Dec 12, 2011 17:43:19 GMT 12
righto....... they'll just give them away to anyone! ;D Ha Ha, Well I do plan on asking real nice, I'll even make my garage a museum for an AIM 9. But seriously, I do wonder what has become of our missiles, NZ ever have any AIM 7 Sparrows or were the A4's not able to fire those? I'll need to research the specs and see if I can make one for display, I'll need some drain pipe I recon and I suppose a coke bottle would help with the nose cone and then some balsa fins might look good, it would still be much easier to get one from the air force if they no longer have the space for them, although I'm sure they have been re-homed already with some ex or current RNZAF staff and I suppose that is only right  . |
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Post by skyhawkdon on Dec 12, 2011 18:02:43 GMT 12
We used the AIM-9G version with the pre-kahu Skyhawk. All of the live ones were fired as they went time-ex in the mid/late '80s. Some of the CATM versions are still around the RNZAF for training aids and at the Air Force Museum at Wigram on display.
We bought 100 AIM-9Ls in the late 80s as part of the Kahu update and only fired one of them.
Like all weapons the AIM-9's (including the training CATM version) were tightly controlled. We weren't even allowed to keep the CATMs on the aircraft in the hangar overnight at Ohakea (insufficient security). They were taken away each night and stored in a nice secure location on base and dropped back in the morning (with one of the Squadron Armament SNCOs signing for them each day). Interestingly when we were deployed overseas we left them on the aircraft because they were real Air Forces and had real security!
I heard a while ago the live AIM-9L's had been sold to a middle east US State Dept approved buyer. The CATMLs may be going to the US with the aircraft that have been sold? NZ6254 at Wigram has one fitted.
The Skyhawk never used the AIM-7 (it needed an air-to-air radar which the original Skyhawk didn't have, although the APG-66 in the Kahu Skyhawks, with a few software tweaks could have successfully illuminated a target for a Sparrow or AMRAM).
So your chances of acquiring one is... zero. Best to make a replica. The Ashburton Aviation Museum have made a replica for their Harrier and no doubt will do the same for their Skyhawk.
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E.T.
Flight Lieutenant
Posts: 78
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Post by E.T. on Dec 12, 2011 19:21:55 GMT 12
... although the APG-66 in the Kahu Skyhawks, with a few software tweaks could have successfully illuminated a target for a Sparrow or AMRAM). That's because the AN/APG66 was a "real" radar Don-me-lad, made by a 'real' engineering company (they make 'fridges so must be good)! I could tell you more but then I'd have to kill you and neutralise the board . . .  Now if only someone would give me back the APG66 coffee mug I earned but got delivered to Wellington and 'intercepted' . . . |
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Post by bell407 on Dec 12, 2011 19:29:30 GMT 12
skyhawkdon, thanks for that very interesting information mate, now at least I know who to contact for ideas on what they used to make their replicas out of and get some specs in terms of dimensions and such.
Thanks again.
PS, you mentioned that we had 100 live AIM 9L's for our A4's, is that a typical number for an air force to have? For example there was some mention in another thread about the Aussie F18s and that the 4 missiles they each had on for the US Pres visit were all the RAAF had, I'm sure that was a bit of sarcasm but is there a formula to work out how many live missiles and bombs per aircraft ratio or do the powers that be just wing it?
Rgds
Jason
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E.T.
Flight Lieutenant
Posts: 78
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Post by E.T. on Dec 12, 2011 19:53:31 GMT 12
Jason, I heard the number was carefully calculated based on the number of years they wanted to have the capability for and the number of live fires they planned to do during annual training. During the time of the Kahu Flight Test program, there actually were intentions to fire off a quantity each year in annual live training. Now for dimensions and specs on the Lima, what we need is to lay out a shot glass full of a nip each of rum and green ginger wine, and then jump on the first cracker-stacker that bumbles along into the trap!  |
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Post by phil on Dec 12, 2011 19:54:27 GMT 12
As said, your chances of getting a real CATM-9L is pretty much zero, but you may be able to get hold of a set of real fins and wings.
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E.T.
Flight Lieutenant
Posts: 78
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Post by E.T. on Dec 12, 2011 21:00:10 GMT 12
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Post by mumbles on Dec 12, 2011 21:45:53 GMT 12
We used the AIM-9G version with the pre-kahu Skyhawk. All of the live ones were fired as they went time-ex in the mid/late '80s. Out of curiosity (if it isn't some kind of state secret), what is the life expectancy of an AIM-9 motor and warhead from time of manufacture (assuming stored under ideal conditions)? |
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Post by bell407 on Dec 12, 2011 21:49:56 GMT 12
Awesome, awesome, I'm going to do it, I've got a few weeks before uni starts again, I'll see what I can fabricate, if there is interest I'll try do a work in progress once things get started.
Might even do one for the War Birds association at Ardmore (Aren't they expecting to get an A4?)
I'll take a look at these links above and see what I can find in terms of materials and I'll take it from there, I'm really keen to do this now, I leave for Perth on the 23rd of DEC and am back in NZ on the 3rd so I'll probably try to make a start once I'm back (Hope I can get up to Pearce to take some pics of the Hawks they have there, will see what the sister unit has planned).
Alright, good stuff.
Cheers
Jason
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Post by bell407 on Dec 13, 2011 8:47:55 GMT 12
Another quickie, it has been said that the RNZAF fired some AIM 9G's and one AIM 9L, at what were these missiles fired?
Did the RNZAF ever have target drones or was it an RC plane with a heat emitter? Can an AIM 9 hit an RC plane, or could they way back then?
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Post by phil on Dec 13, 2011 11:28:43 GMT 12
They were fired against LUU-2 illuminating flares.
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Post by skyhawkdon on Dec 13, 2011 17:45:32 GMT 12
... although the APG-66 in the Kahu Skyhawks, with a few software tweaks could have successfully illuminated a target for a Sparrow or AMRAM). That's because the AN/APG66 was a "real" radar Don-me-lad, made by a 'real' engineering company (they make 'fridges so must be good)! I could tell you more but then I'd have to kill you and neutralise the board . . . Now if only someone would give me back the APG66 coffee mug I earned but got delivered to Wellington and 'intercepted' . . . I see in the latest NZ Aviation News a photo of Chris McLaughlin trying to get the old APG-66 test bench going again at Fieldair in Palmy North. They are also trying to get the NAS ILTS and EILTS test benches going again for the buyer of the Skyhawks in the US. That will be quite a mission I'm thinking, given the EILTS had been canibalised to keep the ILTS going in RNZAF service... but if anyone can Chris probably can! |
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Post by skyhawkdon on Dec 13, 2011 19:24:30 GMT 12
NZ6254 at Woodbourne during Kahu prototype installation and testing in 1988. Did you have anything to do with this ET!!?? I note Smithy is nowhere to be seen - still hiding in the bushes somewhere perhaps!? ;D WAH!'s expression says it all!  |
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E.T.
Flight Lieutenant
Posts: 78
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Post by E.T. on Dec 13, 2011 20:21:30 GMT 12
I was framed Don. At the time I was well away from the nose - on the wing with a spray can of sten-dye in one hand and a 2 Sqdn stencil in the other. Smitty was indeed hiding - probably in the little boys room changing his dacks! And it's fair to say PCP is looking way more cheerful than he felt - Garth certainly looks upset! That made so much work for us - we had to do double shifts to get the nose & cockpit stripped to the point the framies could work on it in time for the weekend SATS run (it seriously cut into our drinking time!) - and then I flew off to China for a couple weeks. Good times. But nothing to do with Sidewinders Don  |
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Post by meo4 on Dec 13, 2011 22:23:09 GMT 12
The only radar guided missile ever and currently operated by the NZDF is the RIM7P sea sparrow (marine version of AIM 7 ) on the ANZAC frigates. I think every other system operated uses IR TV guided means. Sort of sad it's the only credible form of air defence we have. I'm sure if the F16 deal proceeded the RNZAF would of acquired AMRAAM or equivalent.
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