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Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 22, 2005 11:41:44 GMT 12
Hoss Pearson, the chairman of Tactical Air Services - the US company that has bought our Skyhawks and Maachis, says they will retain the RNZAF colour schemes.
They will stay in the green paint, and AVM John Hamilton has agreed to allow the RNZAF Squadron badge markings to stay on them too!
The Kiwi roundels will be removed.
Pearson told NZPA journalist Ian Stuart this and it's reported in AIR FORCE NEWS - the RNZAF's own magazine. Pearson is keen to see the heritage of the RNZAF remain to the fore with the planes.
That's awesome.
They'll be used as aggressor aircraft against US aircraft (like in Top Gun I suppose) and also train US and allied pilots.
An interesting thing is Pearson was also involved with Advanced Training Systems International Ltd, the company that almost bouht these aircraft in the first place, but then the deal went sour because of internal company problems
Great to hear that even after being sold they'll retain a historical connection to the RNZAF.
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Post by corsair67 on Oct 22, 2005 18:47:25 GMT 12
Yay, we might get to see photos of 'RNZAF' Skyhawks and Macchis on the 'net again in the not too distant future  |
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Post by turboNZ on Oct 24, 2005 22:59:19 GMT 12
Good to see that our heritage is not completely lost  |
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Post by Calum on Oct 30, 2005 18:58:16 GMT 12
What I'm curious about with regard to Tactical Air Services is "Where are their contracts?" It appears they don;t have any. Who's putting the money up? It seems allot of money to spend without any guaranteed returns.
Don't get me wrong, I hope and can't wait to see the A-4's in the air again. Even if it's just in pictures on the net
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Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 30, 2005 19:34:25 GMT 12
Well you may see them in the air over Aussie soon as it's reported they are doing a deal to take over the work they used to do with the RAN!!
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Post by corsair67 on Nov 1, 2005 9:13:07 GMT 12
That was mentioned as one of the rumours about new owners for the Skyhawks last year, and I must admit I'd love to see the A-4s back at Nowra again. We will just have to wait and see!
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Post by Calum on Nov 4, 2005 18:33:00 GMT 12
Well you may see them in the air over Aussie soon as it's reported they are doing a deal to take over the work they used to do with the RAN!! That rumour has being the rounds since they retired them. Unfortuneately it's extremely unlikely to happen. For many reasons, not withstanding the RAAF are (finally) doing a bit of fleet support witht eh hawks and the RAN have a lot of other things to spend their money on right now, New AAW DDG's 2 massive Amphibs, new training Helo's . Still as I'm at Nowra, it'll be great to hear the "sound of freedom more regualrly" ;D |
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Post by corsair67 on Nov 10, 2005 17:07:15 GMT 12
But Calum, those RAAF knuckleheads don't like getting too low as it's very scary down near that water, you know! ;D
Do you happen to know which helicopters the RAN have on the list as possible replacements for the Squirrels?
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Post by Calum on Nov 11, 2005 15:31:32 GMT 12
But Calum, those RAAF knuckleheads don't like getting too low as it's very scary down near that water, you know! ;D Do you happen to know which helicopters the RAN have on the list as possible replacements for the Squirrels? You're quite correct Bruce. Low is where the RNZAF excelled . I recall a story told to me someone who went for a ride in the back of a 2 Sqn TA-4K. Whiles scooting along at under 50 ft He asked his pilot where the Hornets were. "Oh they'll be up in the stratosphere" (they weren't allowed below 1000 ft). I know the feeling on one of my rides we and 3 other A-4's spent 45 mins or so attacking a RAN FFG and the most of that was at 50 ft or below. It was exciting but I was nearly crapping myself most of the time, especially as the ship got bigger and bigger For the Squirrel Replacement, The only one I know about is the A109. Either the A109 power (civil) or A109 LUH (military). Although I'd expect Eurocopter will bid something, likely the EC-135. No guarantees anything will happen yet, but we should know more by next year. |
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Post by turboNZ on Nov 11, 2005 20:23:56 GMT 12
Excellent stuff, Calum.
I (and I'm sure the rest of us) would love to hear more about your A-4K adventures!!
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Post by Calum on Nov 11, 2005 20:56:52 GMT 12
Excellent stuff, Calum. I (and I'm sure the rest of us) would love to hear more about your A-4K adventures!! Not much to tell, I was lucky enough to get 3 rides in a T-Bird, (and 1 in a Strikemaster). 2 rides were transits, 1 from Willytown to Nowra, the other form the Avalon Airshow to Nowra. On this ride I took heaps of pictures as the other aircraft were 'armed up" for the airshow. Unfortunately I had borrowed a friends camera, and none of the 10 rolls of film I took at the airshow and the ride back came out as their was something wrong with the camera. man was I pissed off. While any ride in a T Bird was a buzz, the 3rd ride was by the far the most exciting, at that time they still took pax on ship strikes. We were part of a 4 ship attacking an FFG and a couple of other ships. of the coast of NSW. It was 45 mins of terror and excitement. At times I wanted to ask my pilot to fly higher, at the time the RAD ALT low altitude warning was constantly beeping. The pilot had set the bug at 50 feet, we were around 50 feet, sometimes the aircraft was dropping as low as 35 ft (IIRC). Basically I was scared. We would run in at the ships from 4 different points of the compass aiming to meet over a ship at the same time (or as close to as possible) So not only was the ship getting larger as we are trucking in at 400-450 knots but we had to worry about not hitting 1 of 3 other aircraft doing the same thing. Now the pilots had done this more than once (at times we were flying 4 plus sorties a day). I took no photos as we were pulling 2-4 G as we pulled up to go over the ships and I could hold the camera and stop my head form getting whacked around as we carried out evasive maneuvers to try and break the radar locks. The RWS was beeping constantly which became annoying quickly but man was it fun, better than any roller coaster. It was still good to land and get out of the aircraft as I was decidedly green when we landed, managed to keep my stomach down. Most fun I ever had with my clothes on (and better than some times with them off ;D.) Eventually they stopped taking pax on these rides because many got sick, (man I came so close at times). So I consider myself really lucky to have gotten such a ride. THe knucks at 2 Sqn became very very very good at working over the RAN ships. After a couple weeks working with us the ships knew they had had a workout. I doubt the RAAF do as good a job as 2 Sqn did. Mind you there'sa quite a few ex A-4 Knucks flying for the RAAF these days, most are instructors on the Hawk |
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Post by turboNZ on Nov 13, 2005 7:25:45 GMT 12
Wicked !!! What I would have done to have go in that !!!
Cheers Calum !!!
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Post by steve on Nov 13, 2005 23:43:52 GMT 12
lucky bugger!!!...I suspect however if you were the pilot you wouldn't feel so quesey...as you were in control...however that aside thats a once in a life time! I understand as an air to surface attack platform an a4K was an equal to the f16.. is that right?
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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 14, 2005 8:38:01 GMT 12
After Project Kahu upgraded the Skyhawks the interior, weapons system and avionics package was virtually the same as an F16. Kahu was a compromise because the RNZAF really wanted the Government to buy F16's but they were not prepared to pay for them, so they took the cheaper option. I think it was a good option at the time as the A4's continued on for over a decade after the upgrade. I think with the added extras (and some of the avionics was uniquely RNZAF, designed and built by our own technicians too) and with the highly skilled pilots, they could have given any F16 operator a run for their money. Even before the Kahu days No. 75 Sqn used to win international competitions against many other air forces. One I was told about was an annual invite to a different country each year to become agressor against the USS Enterprise. We did it in the early 1980's I was told, off Hawaii, and became the only invited agressor of all the elite units in the world that had had a go, to "sink" the Big E in the competition. That says something. They flew in at wavetop using an island as cover till the last minute and they never saw what hit them, I was told (by my old F/Sgt who was on the exercise).
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Post by Calum on Nov 16, 2005 19:06:43 GMT 12
lucky bugger!!!...I suspect however if you were the pilot you wouldn't feel so quesey...as you were in control...however that aside thats a once in a life time! I understand as an air to surface attack platform an a4K was an equal to the f16.. is that right? It's RADAR (APG-66NZ) was actually better than the original APG-66 fitted to the F-16A's as it had more Air to Surface role. Form memory we got 10 Kahu'ed A-4's for the cost of 1 new F-16. This gave us 90% of the capabilty for a tiny percentage of the cost. What the A-4 really needed was a longer ASM for maritime strike. The AGM-65B/G was really to short ranged. There was talk about the longhorn maverick at some stage but this missile never got off the drawing board. it also needed Airbourne laser designator. These were going to be addressed when the aircraft going to be kept in service to 2010. Once the F-16 was mooted all these went on the back burner. And then we all know what happened  |
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Post by Calum on Nov 16, 2005 19:07:27 GMT 12
Hoss Pearson, the chairman of Tactical Air Services - the US company that has bought our Skyhawks and Maachis, says they will retain the RNZAF colour schemes. . BTW latest rumour, Hoss can't get the money |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 16, 2005 19:29:48 GMT 12
What? You mean this ain't enuff???  ;D ;D ;D Sorry, had to do it. I mean, Hoss... the name just cunjurs something, doesn't it?
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Post by corsair67 on Nov 16, 2005 19:49:02 GMT 12
You know, the more I think about it, the more suspect this whole drama seems to me:
Firstly, Helen Clarke and Co. suddenly announces that the RNZAF ACW is to be disbanded at the end of 2001, and that they expect to be able to sell the aircraft within 3 months of the disbandment. The aircraft then languish at Woodbourne waiting for a buyer, and apart from the occasional rumour, there seemed to be little real interest from anyone in purchasing them (which might have had something to do with the PM saying the Skyhawks were "clapped out"!). One of the many excuses used was that it was all too hard because the US Govt was holding up approvals, etc, etc. Meanwhile, contractors are raking in the cash while the aircraft sit and wait at Woodbourne.
Secondly, Tactical Air Services suddenly appear virtually out of nowhere (just before an election!) offering NZ$135mil(?) to purchase the aircraft.
Thirdly, rumours are flying that Tactical Air Services apparently have no contracts to operate their 'new' aircraft on.
And now to top it all off, TAS might not have the money to buy them anyway!
What a sorry saga this is turning into.
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Post by Calum on Dec 11, 2005 21:43:50 GMT 12
From a ex RNZAF mate "Latest word on the RNZAF A-4 and Macchi sale from aquantences in the RNZAF is Hoss is having trouble coming up with the money and the deal may be off (no contract has even beed signed apparently, despite earlier media reports). " At this link is some pics of the ATSI ex Isreali A-4's myrthdragon.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=313 |
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Post by phil on Jan 25, 2006 20:59:43 GMT 12
Ah yes, but if we'd got the F16s when they were first considered for the replacement of the A4s (in early-mid 80s) rather than taking the cheap option of doing Kahu, we'd still have the F16s today.
We could have put them throught the European MLU program and have the equivelent of the C/D model now.
Labour wouldn't have been able to call the F16s clapped out if they were only 15 years old!
Oh well.....
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