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Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 23, 2012 12:55:58 GMT 12
The NZ Medical team [it wasn't solely RNZAF] didn't lose a Doctor in Vietnam, [or anywhere else for that matter!], but they did lose an RNZAF Medic , Gordon Watt , whom I knew well,in a mine explosion. An RNZAF Doctor, Sqn Ldr Kelvin Bremner, was injured in a vehicle accident, but he's still around. I would seriously question the veracity of that story! Gordon Watt was a Christchurch man, man and had previously been a GSI at Wigram, and definitely didn't have five kids! It is quite possible that her husband was not in the military at all, I just don't know. She gave me the impression that he was, but who knows? Perhaps he was there with the Red Cross, but then why would she go to the RSA for help I wonder? All I know is she seemed pretty genuine, and she was genuinely bitter about the RSA, and it seems to be a rather wierd thing if she was making the story up on the spot, so I don't think she could have been. After all, she approached me, I didn't approach her.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 23, 2012 12:59:20 GMT 12
By the way, what happened to that Canberra?
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Post by phil82 on Sept 23, 2012 16:12:57 GMT 12
By the way, what happened to that Canberra? They jacked it up and flew it back to Tengah with the wheels down, and fixed it!
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Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 23, 2012 16:15:47 GMT 12
I meant what happened that caused it to be like that in your photo? Did it run off the runway?
And is that mud all over it?
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Post by phil82 on Sept 23, 2012 22:44:19 GMT 12
I meant what happened that caused it to be like that in your photo? Did it run off the runway? And is that mud all over it? It had some sort of failure which caused the take-off to be aborted and it ran into the overshoot. The white stuff is foam!
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Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 23, 2012 22:46:41 GMT 12
Thanks. I never thought of foam.
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Post by davidd on Sept 24, 2012 9:51:21 GMT 12
Below is a summary of Vanguard V which I compiled some time ago for a chronology of the RNZAF. Many of the older Board members will recognize a few aircrew names here, although initials not included. Thought I would include the whole summary rather than just details of the two incidents, as this gives a better context to the deployment, and includes quite a bit in the way of operational detail. All this information from the unit history (Form 540) in case anybody was wondering. The Canberra mentioned overunning at Korat is the aircraft referred to in a previous post. David D
1/4 – 7/5/64; VANGUARD V – Six Canberras away to Singapore @ 0930 via a new route to avoid Indonesia. This route (and approx. flying times) was: to Nadi (Fiji, 3.05 – 3.55), Kwajalein (Marshall islands 2/4, 3.50 – 4.00), Anderson AFB, Guam (Marianas 3/4, 3.35), Clark AFB (Philippines 4/4, 3.30 – 3.35), Tengah (5/4, 3.15 – 3.20). This was first time the Canberras had visited Kwajalein and Guam. Only problem on trip up was a generator failure in NZ6106 (F/O Thompson/F/O Southgate) on first leg, returned to Ohakea for rectification, but managed to catch up that day. A Hastings faithfully followed the Canberras on this trip with a servicing crew under engineering officer F/L Calvert; they undertook their duties in late afternoon and evening. The main servicing party (plus 3 more Canberra crews) followed in a DC-6, departing Ohakea on 2/4, via Eagle Farm and Darwin, and arrived at Tengah 4/4, ahead of the Canberras. Remaining at Ohakea were 4 aircraft, 5 pilots and two navigators. At Tengah, squadron initially concentrated on area familiarization (by day and night) from 7/4, also low level navexs, night flying, and just one “Woozle” (appears to be a low level navex!). Four pairs of aircraft worked with Forward Air Controllers on 9/4, 20 miles NW of Tengah, followed by a low level individual navexes, final flying on 10/4 (5 more navexes around Malaya). Squadron then ceased flying for several days, although 11 officer aircrew “took advantage of the jungle survival course run by FEAF Jungle Survival School” on 13-14/4, which also included lectures and films. After resuming flying on 16/4 (mostly navexes), all 6 a/c (plus a Hastings) deployed to Korat in Thailand on 18/4 (incidentally where detached Flight of 41 Sqdn based) for the main purpose of the deployment. Here, after getting familiar with area commencing 20/4, the unit participated in Exercise AIR BOON CHOO, 24 – 29/4 (Canberra crews completing 29 sorties, although flying hours only came to 49 hours, 5 mins), then a flypast over Bangkok by 3 a/c on 1/5, before continuing on back to Tengah. Most of the sorties flown during exercise seem to have been simulated formation attacks against airfields in north west Thailand, in pairs or fours, usually of about one hours duration; also some FAC sorties were undertaken. Needless to say, communications difficulties were frequent, and “on some sorties the only radio contact was with Korat Tower.” Another problem suffered later in exercise was a serious shortage of starter cartridges. One Canberra (NZ6110, F/L McGuire/F/O Kirtland) suffered damage at Korat on 22/4 when it experienced a partial power failure in port engine just on unstick speed during take off. As the aircraft was still running at 60 knots when it entered the overrun area, McGuire elected to raise the undercarriage and they slid off the end, thus avoiding more drastic damage to structure, and came to rest 40 yards after retraction; crew members scrambled clear, unhurt. This aircraft was test flown on 30/4 by F/L D Smith, just in time for the return to Tengah. However it was only the first of two incidents which reduced the squadron to just 4 serviceable aircraft for the main exercise, as NZ6105 was u/s at Tengah from 23/4 (having flown south from Korat previous day to return some borrowed equipment). This aircraft had been caught out making an approach to landing when it flew through a CB; on landing it was discovered that both engines had been damaged by hail, forcing a double engine change; it was finally air tested on 2/5. The Canberras set out on return to NZ 6/5, although in contrast to flight up, this journey was the more usual Tengah – Darwin – Amberley – Ohakea route; departure delayed 24 hours awaiting diplomatic clearance from Indonesians.
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Post by vansvilla on Nov 2, 2012 20:34:18 GMT 12
Ah ha, comes back to me now, the guy with the handbag and wearing tropical FS cap is Brian ( Waka ) Jarvis,
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Post by possum20 on Nov 13, 2012 17:33:45 GMT 12
John Scrimshaw does not appear to be on your list of those who served in SVN. He was a FAC - 02's and I did a number of "pairs" VR missions with him. 68/69
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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 13, 2012 17:58:12 GMT 12
Welcome possum20, I have moved your post into the existing thread. Actually John Scrimshaw was mentioned by Baronbeeza back on the first page. Thanks for posting though. Were you USAF? I'd love to hear more please.
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Post by kiwi172 on Nov 19, 2012 10:52:59 GMT 12
Not RNZAF military but. Lesley Cowper ; A nurse with the NZ Surgical Team died in country, I believe of some tropical disease on 02-05-1966.
Mac (Malcolm) Riding, a member of the 4th NZ Red Cross Team at Pleiku and Leader of the Fifth Red Cross Team died in an aircraft crash 12-03-1975. From memory he was heading out on leave and the aircraft was believed to have been shot down in the Pleiku Province.
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Post by ngatimozart on Nov 19, 2012 15:29:13 GMT 12
Slightly off thread, but how times have changed. I was reading through the list of large donors to the Christchurch earthquakes and noted that the Socialist Republic of Vietnam donated money to the relief fund.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 19, 2012 21:57:50 GMT 12
I discovered today that it was not just pilots who were posted to No. 9 Squadron RAAF from the RNZAF. At least one Helicopter Crewman went too to Vietnam with that squadron, Brian Farrell, who was the RNZAF's first ever HCM and had served on No's 3 and 41 Squadron Iroquois before going to No. 9 Squadron. I plan to interview him for the WONZ Show on Wednesday, he lives here in Cambridge, just round the corner from my Mum.
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Post by tbf25o4 on Dec 3, 2012 19:07:12 GMT 12
Always overlooked were the group of "groundies" that were attached to a USMC A4 Skyhawk squadron at Chu Lai to learn about weapons delivery at about the time we were to take delivery of our skyhawks.
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Post by htbrst on Feb 12, 2013 14:45:36 GMT 12
I'm part way through reading Ian McGibbons book New Zealand's Vietnam War: A History of Combat, Commitment and Controversy" which has a chapter of the NZ Air Operations - including a few pages on the Army Air Corps pilots which I haven't seen mentioned above (probably because they were not RNZAF but they were close!) - who were awarded 2 DFC's among their 5 pilots. The relevent chapter on Air Operations has been digitised and available on Google Books for those interested - quite a few interesting tidbits in there : books.google.co.nz/books?id=tbWHLHJhU5gC&lpg=PP1&pg=PA261#v=onepage&q&f=trueThere is a paragraph about the air corps involvement: I'm just interested in the "presumably without the RNZAF knowing" part - Would the RNZAF thrown up a stink about them flying big helicopters rather than just the Sioux - i.e. patch protection or something else ? Also, here is an article I have recently added to the NZ Wings archive by Ross Ewing that may be of interest about his experiences as a FAC in Vietnam: www.pacificwingsmagazine.com/content/vietnam-fac-kiwis-over-jungle
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Post by scrooge on Feb 12, 2013 16:09:17 GMT 12
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Eng
Flight Lieutenant
Posts: 81
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Post by Eng on Feb 17, 2013 12:47:40 GMT 12
That Qui Nhon pic with the medics and crew .Looks very much like Geoff Familton Nav but I think hes wearing a Warrant Officers hat which makes him more like Master Sig Len Fretwell. My last jaunt to Qhi Nhon was in April '65 . We were flying a group of Parliamentarians around South East Asia on a "fact finding tour ".. I doubt if any present day members of the Beehive could be persuded to sit in an "Ugly" for that length of time! Captain Les Wood. We duly landed and were shown around the hospital where the NZ surgical team were doing wonderful works . Patients 2 to a bed and on a rubber sheet . I noticed one was handcuffed to the bed along side one who was not . Answer- He is a North Vietnamese! There were patients dying because no one would bring them water. They were just dehydrating in bed .Apparently the Viet Nurses would only change dressings and give jabs . No potty changing for them !! The stench in the kitchen was indescribable ,Flies every where . One 13 year old complete with 11 mg bullets down her side had been piggy backed to the hospital 180 Kms by her grandfather. If you had no family present to "Do" for you then your chances were on the slim side. A beautiful place scarred by war . Our wonderful NZ nurses were doing a great job. Their biggest problem was to not get involved too closely with their tiny charges. Heart rending stuff. A bit of a laugh though , we were told when they first arrived the six nurses were billeted in a large house in a rundown street and found they were given the cold shoulder by all the women residents . Matters thawed however when it was found out that they weren't prostitutes touting for business in the local patch ! Smiles all around --- eventually :-) :-)
Eng
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 17, 2013 13:49:47 GMT 12
That is a rather chilling and sad account of the effects of war there Eng. Thanks for posting it.
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furd
Flight Lieutenant
Posts: 71
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Post by furd on Feb 17, 2013 17:54:31 GMT 12
That Qui Nhon pic with the medics and crew .Looks very much like Geoff Familton Nav but I think hes wearing a Warrant Officers hat which makes him more like Master Sig Len Fretwell. My last jaunt to Qhi Nhon was in April '65 . We were flying a group of Parliamentarians around South East Asia on a "fact finding tour ".. I doubt if any present day members of the Beehive could be persuded to sit in an "Ugly" for that length of time! Captain Les Wood. We duly landed and were shown around the hospital where the NZ surgical team were doing wonderful works . Patients 2 to a bed and on a rubber sheet . I noticed one was handcuffed to the bed along side one who was not . Answer- He is a North Vietnamese! There were patients dying because no one would bring them water. They were just dehydrating in bed .Apparently the Viet Nurses would only change dressings and give jabs . No potty changing for them !! The stench in the kitchen was indescribable ,Flies every where . One 13 year old complete with 11 mg bullets down her side had been piggy backed to the hospital 180 Kms by her grandfather. If you had no family present to "Do" for you then your chances were on the slim side. A beautiful place scarred by war . Our wonderful NZ nurses were doing a great job. Their biggest problem was to not get involved too closely with their tiny charges. Heart rending stuff. A bit of a laugh though , we were told when they first arrived the six nurses were billeted in a large house in a rundown street and found they were given the cold shoulder by all the women residents . Matters thawed however when it was found out that they weren't prostitutes touting for business in the local patch ! Smiles all around --- eventually :-) :-) Eng Hi Eng, I'm trying to establish who you are from your profile and your various posts. I'm sure will know each other as a number of situations that you quote I can relate to. Firstly re the official opening of the Wellington airport in 1959 I was there on the Hastings and observed the Sunderland runway contact and the Vulcan touching down short of the runway. I was a LAC Eng Mech at the time and we would have flown back to Whenuapai on the Hastings. I did my FE course at Wigram in 1964 and completed my MOCU course 1964-65. I flew the final Sunderland flight with Eddie Brown Laucala Bay to Hobsonville on the 2 April 1967. I then went onto C130's before joining AirNZ early 1970. Re your comment about the crew photo in Vietnam, the W/O could be FE Bob Frecklington and I recognize Bob Loader there as well. The photo would have been taken late 1970-72 as Don McAllister was still on 40 Sqn when I left. I see Tick Tock from time to time at RSA district meetings. Furd
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Eng
Flight Lieutenant
Posts: 81
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Post by Eng on Feb 17, 2013 20:05:17 GMT 12
Aw C'mon Furd ! You can do better than that !!!! You had better ask T/Tock. He'll cotton on straight away :-) I often wondered what happened to Eddie Brown . Flew a lot with him. I guess this conversation should be on a Sunderland File. The clue is 'Suck Squeeze , Bang ,Blow. I wonder at your FE course date -Doesnt coincide with my logbook Kind Regards Eng
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