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Post by dpdouglas on Dec 20, 2005 1:35:24 GMT 12
How do you basically get the furtherest rank you can get in the occupation you choose? is there a job in the air force which provides for a more rank gaining one. what do you actually have to do to gain rank (i already know about doing courses) but what does it take to get high level authority and a good rank. and does everyone come out of AARC as an LAC or can you come out a Sgt or Cpl for achieving higher grades?
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Post by dpdouglas on Dec 20, 2005 1:43:55 GMT 12
Whats the deal, I hear that a Pilot goes up the ranks faster than an Air Security Officer. is this right or is it that everyone is equal. please somebody tell me because although i am a 15 year old, i aim in my life to become either Air Marshal or Air Vice Marshal of the Air force or Defence Force.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 20, 2005 2:09:29 GMT 12
What is AARC?
Pilots begin their career as an Officer Cadet, as do most other officers. There are no non-commissioned pilots, navigators or flight engineers (like there were during the war).
As Air Security starts at the bottom and would be very very seldom any get to officer rank, or F/Sgt for that matter, then yes, pilots do have a huge rank advantage.
Rank promotions are achieved through lots of hard work, and time served. The only automatic change in rank classification is if youve served three years and are still an Aircraftman, you are reclassified to become a Laeiding Aircraftman on the date three years after your enlistment. Most ground trades used to rise faster in rank than technical trades when I was in. But it slowed down and evened out about Corporal level.
Air Security would (if it's still the same) skip LAC and go to Corporal, in order to have rank over the baggies) but you then stay a Cpl a long long time.
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Post by dpdouglas on Dec 20, 2005 2:46:04 GMT 12
AARC is All Arms Recruit Course - Basic Training for everybody.
Ok wel that kind of changes my choic of career in the Airforce now i cant decide whether to be a Pilot, AEOP or Security Guard
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 20, 2005 12:10:44 GMT 12
You need to have really good grades at school, especially in physics and maths, to become a pilot or AEOP. Are you good at them? Good computer skills also help.
There's a big difference between the trades that you're looking at. For aircrew selection you will go through a really rigorous set of tests before you even get to enlistment stage. I assume they still have PERCEL, it used to be at Hobsonville. PERSEL puts those who want to be aircrew through their paces real hard - most, even the brightest of people, fail the course and never become aircrew. It's not just brains either but also physical capabilities, etc.
Whereas Air Security is a trade combined from what used to be General Service Instructors, and RNZAF Police. So to be competent in either side you need to be an evil sadistic nasty creep! Do you fit that bill?
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Post by dpdouglas on Dec 21, 2005 13:29:13 GMT 12
well im pretty good i wont know whether ill be doing lvl2 NCEA in maths or Physics til late january so we will have to see.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 21, 2005 14:47:56 GMT 12
Did you know you have to learn English classes in the RNZAF as well? So you better ask your English teacher where the capital letters go in a sentence ;D
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Post by Bruce on Dec 21, 2005 15:12:28 GMT 12
If I could make a suggestion, whilst the desire to achieve the position of CDF is a great dream to have, it would be better to determine your career based on closer goals. Speed of promotion isnt a great basis for a choice, as you need to concentrate on doing the best job you can now (or whenever) rather than "just get through this as quick as possible cos I want to be a higher rank". In effect the more you concentrate on your current position, and doing it well, the quicker you advance - quicker than those whose thoughts are forever looking at something better. I'd suggest you choose your trade based on your passion towards it and your ability - then you can give it 100% effort at all levels, enjoy what you are doing and as a result, achieve better performance, which your officers should notice and offer you promotion that way.
When I was an apprentice (Cilivilian aircraft tradesman) we hired a young guy and his brother to sand down a GAF Nomad for painting. The first guy was keen to become a fighter pilot and was right into planes. His brother wasnt so keen on planes, but wanted some holiday work. In the end the bosses fired the "Fighter Pilot" because he couldnt focus on the menial task in hand, and thought it was below him. His brother proved the most valuable because the job in hand was the key thing, and he did it very well.
just some advice that may be of assistance anyway - its up to you what you want to do...
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 21, 2005 15:20:29 GMT 12
Hear hear, very good advice Bruce
I'd think there is little room for promotion in the RNZAF these days anyway compard to my day, as positions are much more limited, no matter what the trade is
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Post by corsair67 on Dec 21, 2005 15:50:55 GMT 12
Yep, very good points Bruce and Dave. Lol about the English too! I always wanted to be a fighter pilot, but I was far too occupied watching planes fly around rather than studying hard at school. I'm not joking either: when I was sitting my U.E exams I spent my time between the exams out at Harewood watching the RAAF F-111s and USAF KC-135 tankers that were based there during the TRIAD exercises, instead of swotting for Maths, Physics, English and Geography! ;D So now I work as a Student Administrator in a university.  |
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Post by dpdouglas on Dec 22, 2005 2:10:53 GMT 12
Typical Dave although though you others think its funny, I recommend that try looking to jokes than other peoples feelings for laughter ok. Sure I know that English, Maths and Physics are good for Pilots but i'll have you know ive excelled in all of my standards. Its just that I don't really care about capitals at the begining of sentences for threads and so on. So stop nitpicking and just let people speak freely without the comments of the moderator telling them the mistakes that they have made ok.
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Post by Bruce on Dec 22, 2005 7:27:28 GMT 12
Whos going to be the first to tell this guy to pull his head in?
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Post by corsair67 on Dec 22, 2005 11:08:28 GMT 12
Dougie, it was a joke, mate: get over it!  Anyway, everyone should try and write/speak correctly at all times, because it's very easy to become lazy and then lose the ability to communcate effectively with grumpy old bastards like me. ;D |
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Post by dpdouglas on Dec 22, 2005 18:47:42 GMT 12
Ill send you a Personal Message about this ok.
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Post by Phil on Jan 23, 2006 17:24:52 GMT 12
I see you've already been given a bit of info, not all of it quite right. If you enlist as an a non-commisioned rank (for your Air Security or AEOP trade) you will come out of recruit course as an AC.
For AEOP you will be made acting CPL straight away, but believe me this isn't the giddy heights it sounds. Aircrew have a different promotion system than ground trades, you will be made up to SGT on serving 7 years. Officers promotion is largly time based to FLTLT (again 7 years?) although after that it is merit based.
For ASY you will stay an AC until you either complete Advanced Trade Training, or do three years, at which point you will become an LAC. To get to CPL from there you need to do another one to two years or so after ATT to get to CPL. This is the the same progression for all ground trades. To get to SGT from there it is another 3 years to become eligible, then it is on merit and dependent on available positions.
I'm not sure about joining as an ASY officer, these tend to be CFR (commissioned from the ranks) but if you were suitably qualified (ie had a degree at least) there might be direct entry options, you need to approach the recruiters to check this.
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Post by phil on Jan 25, 2006 20:45:03 GMT 12
AARC is All Arms Recruit Course - Basic Training for everybody. Ok wel that kind of changes my choic of career in the Airforce now i cant decide whether to be a Pilot, AEOP or Security Guard AARC is an army thing, we don't have 'all arms' in the Air Force. It's just recruit course. |
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Post by phil82 on Jan 27, 2006 21:26:47 GMT 12
Oh dear! Some misinformation here, along with some not so! As someone with almost a quarter century of air force service,[ in two of them], both as an airman for nine years or so, and an Officer for fourteen,and having gone from LAC to Sqn Ldr, I'm bound to say that all promotions are, generally, on merit, though that for commissioned officers is very different from non-commissioned ranks. There are, always in a small organisation like the RNZAF, problems with some trades due to numbers. We can't all be chiefs, some of us need to be !Indians.
Speaking as one who served both as an airman and an officer. let me tell you that the learning curve for newly-commissioned officers, is very, very steep indeed. Theoretically, there are no differences between various branches of the Officer Corps, but in practice, that is not always true. Promotion for junior officers, that is P/O to Flt Lt, is by time served and examination, but promotion to Squadron Leader and above [Senior Officer] is by merit, selection, and attendance at the RNZAF Command and Staff College. Then you have Direct Entry Officers who arrive with rank gained from waving an MBA or something equivalent but none of whom have the faintest idea about air force ethos.
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