NZ6218

[beagle]

pretty sure that is almost the same parking spot that an Argosy fell over

[Dave Homewood]

Argosy fell over?

[ngatimozart]

Feb 8, 2012 21:51:40 GMT 12 beagle said:

pretty sure that is almost the same parking spot that an Argosy fell over

That would have been impressive.

[baronbeeza]

I can recall one getting cut-up there.Well at least the staff tried to. If I remember rightly they may have given up and adopted another plan.

[ngatimozart]

I remember the whine of the 4 RR Darts starting up at some ungodly hour of the morning if one Argosy there or 8 if both. Wasn't nice on the hangover that had been studiously manufactured the night before.

[beagle]

The "Whistling Wheelbarrow"

[Dave Homewood]

beagle, what actually happened to the Argosy? Did a main or nose gear collapse?

I used to really enjoy watching them coming in and out of Woodbourne, but yes I also recall the early morning engine runs waking us all up.

[paddy]

There is a photo on here somewhere of an A4 with it's nosewheel retracted. It, rather unfairly, puts the blame on the Armourers.
The story in the post was, that to check the armanent circuits the undercarriage retract handle had to be placed in the up position and after having done said check, we (The Armourers) had forgotten to place the handle in the down position. On startup the nosewheel retracted. Point one: The Knuck should have found it on his pre start checks. And Point 2: We had an Armanent Safety Disable Switch in the Port Mainwheel well which enabled us to check all circuits without playing around with the undercarriage retract handle.
It irked me at the time but I was a newbie here and let it go.
Be warned, denigrate Armourers at your peril :-0

[Dave Homewood]

Surely it was only denigrating one particular armourer, rightly or wrongly?

What did the Court of Enquiry conclude? Pilot or Armourer error?

[paddy]

Feb 12, 2012 15:11:55 GMT 12 Dave Homewood said:

Surely it was only denigrating one particular armourer, rightly or wrongly?

What did the Court of Enquiry conclude? Pilot or Armourer error?

Dave, this was before my time and I don't know if the Armanent Safety disable switch was installed as a result of this.

It would denigrate 2 armourers (The original Armourer and his supervising NCO)
I do recall that there was no mention of this particular incident either on my Mech's course or my OJT on 75 which gives me the impression that it did not occur in the way it was told.

That said, it would have been the pilot's responsibility to check the gear lever in his pre start checks.

[skyhawkdon]

Leaving the U/C handle up after Armament functionals happened on a number of occasions in my time on 2 & 75 Sqns. Most of the time it was found by the pilot on his preflight and justifiably they weren't impressed! IMHO there was no excuse for it, it was a clear failure of everyone involved to check it was back where it should be on the ground, as well as every person who had been near the cockpit since! No one was ever charged for it that I'm aware of but everyone would have learnt a few lessons I'm sure!

One story I didn't put in the book involved the same pilot involved with 08's nose gear retraction on the ground in 1978. It was the day of the live Maverick firings in 1989 and the aircraft were parked at Camp Sanson... the Armourers had left the U/C handle up (Whoops!) after their checks on the missile and the pilot didn't notice it on his preflight. After aircraft start the dispatcher went to remove the landing gear pins but couldn't get the nose gear one out - it was jammed! After much pulling they asked the pilot to check his gear handle and guess what he found! Much embarrassment all round especially given the high profile live firing and previous incident history! But at least the change made after '08's incident (leaving the U/C pins in until after start) worked!

I think the gunnies were forgiven by the knucks when both Mavericks scored direct hits!

[Dave Homewood]

Where was/is Camp Sanson?

[baronbeeza]

Feb 12, 2012 20:25:37 GMT 12 skyhawkdon said:

pilot involved with 08's nose gear retraction on the ground in 1978.

The broken nose A4 I was thinking of would have been about August 1980. The Pilot went on to a senior rank.

Once upon time to you had eject or bail out to get you name in the spotlight and go on to Air rank.
I think the same guy threw a slat off out on the range about the same time.

[skyhawkdon]

Sorry it was 1980 not 1978 and yes we are thinking the same person!

[skyhawkdon]

Feb 13, 2012 1:05:07 GMT 12 Dave Homewood said:

Where was/is Camp Sanson?

It was on a taxiway on the far (Sanson) side of the airfield. About as far as you could get from Base and it was used for loading live weapons.

[Calum]

Feb 7, 2012 21:48:45 GMT 12 harvard1041 said:

Hi Calum

Yes - no problem using the photos - actually can you ask Tunny if he has any others ? ... I have lots of the rebuild 'somewhere' ... there is a really good one with Tunny, Dave Mitchell, Rag Gordon, Trev Triska & myself kneeling in front of it when it left ARS in about 1989 - we even made the front pages of the Marlborough Excuse ( cost us all beers at the next Happy Hour ).
Cheers
Hvd1041

Thanks, I know Tunny has a box full of photos from the rebuild process as I've seen them..

I've been (for years) meaning to get them and scan them. One day when I'm around at his place, I'll may actually remember to ask him for them.

IIRC he may have the photo of you guys in front on 18 on the wall at his place

[Dave Homewood]

Thanks Don, so I guess Camp Sanson is a modern name for what in WWII was known as Siberia? Or is that a different spot?

[skyhawkdon]

I think "Siberia" was closer to where the new helicopter hangars are. "Camp Sanson" was further towards Sanson.

[paddy]

I have to take issue with you Don re the U/C Handle.
In my time at AMS and 75 I never touched the undercarriage handle. There was simply no need. All armanent functionals could be performed using the armanent safety disable switch in the starboard wheel well. This may have changed with the advent of the Maverick but I can see no reason why that should be so.

Re Gear Pins: During my time the pins were removed as the second to last action during dispatch (Last was remove the chocks and wave them at the pilot) You removed all pins (Gear x 3, Rack pins and drag chute pins) showed them to the pilot who counted them and stowed them in the aft hell hole.

The only time I can remember gear pins being removed earlier was on Hydraulic functionals.

Regards


Paddy

[skyhawkdon]

I guess some things did change post Kahu. I helped armourers do checks many times and the U/C handle had to be raised as part of them, as well as bypassing the Weight On Wheels (WOW) switch. I never touched the Armamament Safety Disable switch in the nose wheel well but I know it was there.

I also remember the dispatch procedure (order of pins removed) slightly differently to you, so maybe it changed as well in the late 80s. The 5 rack pins, CDS safety pin (so long as there was no chaff/flares fitted) and drag chute pin were removed prior to the pilot walking. He was shown these as he started his walk around and they were then stowed. The U/C pins were left in until after start. They were removed after start and shown to the pilot and then stowed. The sniff check was then done.