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Post by Ian Warren on Sept 25, 2015 20:37:10 GMT 12
That sounds about correct, I would definitely that period when scouting Te Pirita would have been the 'E' since they were very capable to handle the Japanese and course June 1942 really put a change to further threat, but I do wonder if the 'F' ever got here, which I do doubt so interesting to further check.
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Post by Ian Warren on Sept 25, 2015 20:45:11 GMT 12
I have to seriously get back down your way, been a few years since I went for a wander around.
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Post by Andy Wright on Mar 20, 2016 23:30:06 GMT 12
I am working on an article about the loss of 41-2434 and her crew for the next issue of Flightpath. It has been nothing short of amazing to discover the history of the aircraft. The visit to NZ, and the fact there is a photo, is just the icing on the cake. WONZ does it again!
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Post by errolmartyn on Mar 21, 2016 12:30:28 GMT 12
I am working on an article about the loss of 41-2434 and her crew for the next issue of Flightpath. It has been nothing short of amazing to discover the history of the aircraft. The visit to NZ, and the fact there is a photo, is just the icing on the cake. WONZ does it again! Andy, email me if you would like me to send you a copy of the official accident report. Errol (errol.martyn AT xtra.co.nz) |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 29, 2017 19:37:55 GMT 12
I just came across this article from the AUCKLAND STAR, dated 21 DECEMBER 1945 - seemingly the first public acknowledgement of this?
When Exploding Flying Fortress Awoke Auckland
HUNDREDS of motorists who sweep along the ribbon of concrete highway past the Waikumete Cemetery in the direction of Henderson have noticed the Stars and Stripes waving at the head of a tall pole. Beneath the flag, amid the restful surroundings of evergreens and ornamental trees, lie the victims of one of the worst Auckland air crashes of the war.
No sensational event of the war years was associated with greater official secrecy, and yet, because of loose talk, and because the noise of the explosion following the crash woke up half Auckland, the majority of the public had a surprisingly accurate version of what took place.
There were, of course, garbled accounts and exaggerations, inevitable under any censorship ban. But in this case there was sound justification for the complete security blackout, for the machine which crashed was the first Flying Fortress ever to reach New Zealand, and the need for withholding such information from the Japs was obvious.
So from that day — June 9, 1942 — to this no details of the tragedy have been published by any New Zealand newspaper.
Originally the B-17 came from Hawaii, and later was based on New Caledonia coming down to Auckland on a secret mission. It was because the bomber was on such a mission, and not on an operational flight, that the names of those aboard were not taken before - she set out from Whenuapai into the darkness of the night. It was also because of this that relatives of the dead men had the greatest difficulty in gathering information later.
Published for the first time, the names of the 11 victims are: Colonel R. E. Cobb, Captain J. Bruce, Captain J. Gilbert, Lieutenant E. H. Hoffman, Lieutenant E. W. Hurst, Technical-Sergeant C. P. Brunson, Sergeant J. F. Lopez, Sergeant H. Cohn, Corporal J. Herriotts, Corporal J. R. Clanton. and Private C. L. Childers. All were members of the United States Army Air Corps, with the exception of Captain Gilbert, of the Free French Navy, and Lieutenant Hurst, of the United States Navy.
Under sealed orders the aircraft took off about 12.30 a.m. in a southwesterly direction, facing the wind, and, so far as is known, failed to gain sufficient height and struck a low hill at the extreme end of the runway. It immediately burst into flames, and a minute or so later there was a terrific explosion when the fire reached the heavy bomb-load.
Air rescue units were quickly on the scene but could only watch the flaming wreckage. So great was the force of the blast that a neighbouring house was knocked out of shape and a piano was flung from one end of a room to another. A second nearby house was also structurally damaged and the occupants narrowly escaped injury.
Pieces of the aircraft were found miles away, including engine parts, and the shattering roar of the explosion startled thousands of Aucklanders. A simple funeral service took place on June 12, unattended, of course, by any publicity, though a large section of the public was able to link it up with the stories, then rife, of the crash.
The late Right Hon. J. G. Coates, Minister for Co-ordination of Defence, attended on behalf of the Government, and there was a representative muster of leading American and New Zealand Service chiefs and personnel. The officiating ministers were the Rev. E. E. Bamford (Anglican), Rev. Father Kevin, 0.F.M., and Rev. W. Walker (Methodist). The remains of the victims were interred in the Waikumete Cemetery and later removed to their present resting-place in the American section.
Aucklanders' Interest
For months desperate efforts to secure full details of the tragedy were made by relatives of the deceased in America, and they were eventually able to do so through the interest and co-operation of Aucklanders, and with the approval of the military authorities. In particular, one Orakei couple, who desire to remain anonymous, at the request of mutual friends in America sent all available details together with photographs to Mrs. H. Hoffman, of Cincinnati, mother of Lieutenant Hoffman, navigator of the ill-fated plane. This lady obtained the addresses of the bereaved relatives from the War Department, Washington, and forwarded copies of photographs and letters of interest from Auckland. Every scrap of information she could garner was circulated from time to time, and in only three cases were her letters unanswered or unclaimed. Through the efforts of Mrs. Hoffman and her Auckland correspondents the mourners derived much comfort.
In fact, Mrs. Hoffman herself was rewarded by receiving advice, purely by chance, how her son Edward spent his last day in Auckland. It came about this way: She had sent a photograph of the boy to her Auckland friend which was immediately recognised by Mr. Geoffrey Webster, chief reporter of the Auckland Star, who met him the night before the crash at the United States naval headquarters at Jean Batten Place in company with Lieutenant-Commander Gene Markey. U.S.N.R., chief censor, and Mr. Francis McCarthy, war correspondent for the United Press of America. Mr. Webster was able to supply a faithful description to Mrs. Hoffman of her son's doings and friends and associates in the last hours before his tragic and untimely death. Letters received periodically from Mrs. Hoffman show how deeply appreciated is the action of the New Zealanders in forwarding information and in visiting the plots at Waikumete and caring for the graves.
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Post by isc on Apr 29, 2017 21:43:45 GMT 12
There was a bit about the dig around the area of the crash tonight on TV-1, must have been on 7 Sharp. isc
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 30, 2017 1:10:36 GMT 12
Really?? That's a coincidence!
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Post by isc on Apr 30, 2017 20:49:23 GMT 12
Sure was! isc
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 1, 2017 15:37:41 GMT 12
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Post by camtech on May 1, 2017 17:14:04 GMT 12
I saw the item and recall a comment to say there were survivors - first time that had been aired?
Also, if the intention is to build on the site, I guess we wait for a few years and look for the complaints about aircraft operations with the associated noise, and attempts to restrict the military to only being able to operate during "respectable" hours.
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 1, 2017 17:42:54 GMT 12
Yes I thought the same thing, survivors??
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Post by gibbo on May 1, 2017 19:41:34 GMT 12
Yes I thought the same thing, survivors?? Yeah I viewed the air crash report at NZ Archives a couple of years back & have just dug out my notes. 11 on board all named and 11 deaths listed - although I didn't specifically read 'no survivors'... pretty sure they all perished. Cause undetermined and considered engine problems unlikely even though it had earlier engine issues that delayed the flight about 24 hours. Considered most likely cause to be temporary night blindness as airfield lights were used for takeoff & apparently switched off almost immediately. I'm picking like most a/c crashes there was a combination of factors & surely those earlier engine problems can't be discounted but I doubt the engines were in any fit state to divulge any evidence after the blast. Headed to Melbourne - 'purpose & instructions unknown'. Heading to Aussie fully bombed certainly wouldn't be normal but AFAIK there is talk a bomb-sight (Norden?) was recovered from the crash very quickly by American personnel. There were 2 'notables'listed as passengers - E.W. Hurst (USN) & Cpt. J. Gilbert (French Navy), the latter being the aide to the French High Commissioner for the Pacific. The remaining 9 were all USAAF personnel. |
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Post by errolmartyn on May 1, 2017 21:41:02 GMT 12
I learned much more about Gilbert subsequent to my entry for the B-17 accident published in Vol Two of 'For Your Tomorrow'. He was Capitaine de Corvette (equivalent of major or squadron leader) Jean Clovis Alexandre Gilbert. A 35 year old pilot, and at the time of the accident OC of the Free French Navy in Noumea, his naval career dated back to 1926 when he was accepted for the Ecole Navale (Navy Academy). He had resigned from the Navy in 1936 but rejoined on 2 Sep 1939.
He was posthumously made a Compagnon de la Libération (Aug 1942) and Chevalier de la légion d'honneur (Aug 1945).
Errol
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Post by Barnsey on May 1, 2017 21:45:31 GMT 12
Does anyone know exactly where the crash site is? Is it on or near the extended runway centreline? An historical account I found mentions it was near to the Sinton Homestead, which was blown off its foundations. The Sintons were the original landowner in the Whenuapai area. The Whenuapai historical register shapeauckland.co.nz/media/1628/preliminary-historic-heritage-assessment.pdf makes no mention of the B17 crash site, but does locate a DC3 and Hudson under the mudflats. It shows the Sinton Homestead up near the roundabout on the left of the picture. My hope is that the imminent development is connected with the subdivision that is already taking place to the north of the picture (and north of the strip of dirt that is needed for a runway extension).  |
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Post by gibbo on May 1, 2017 22:37:09 GMT 12
Does anyone know exactly where the crash site is? Is it on or near the extended runway centreline? An historical account I found mentions it was near to the Sinton Homestead, which was blown off its foundations. The Sintons were the original landowner in the Whenuapai area. The Whenuapai historical register shapeauckland.co.nz/media/1628/preliminary-historic-heritage-assessment.pdf makes no mention of the B17 crash site, but does locate a DC3 and Hudson under the mudflats. It shows the Sinton Homestead up near the roundabout on the left of the picture. My hope is that the imminent development is connected with the subdivision that is already taking place to the north of the picture (and north of the strip of dirt that is needed for a runway extension). Yes can pinpoint it for you, but it's actually to the left of the map image shown above. I'll have a go at taking a snip & uploading it. Nah sorry, I'm a numpty, searched help etc but work out how to attach a file...! Go to Fred Taylor Drive (old SH16) in Google maps & find section/address 122. Zoom in, crash site is in the paddock running up to the fence directly across the road from 122 (On the airfield side of the road). It's pretty much in a line with the main runway. |
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 2, 2017 14:01:35 GMT 12
I'd been led to believe the crash site was on the farm literally across the road from the end of the runway. Is that not the case then?
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Post by johnm on May 2, 2017 15:53:08 GMT 12
sorry have not read the whole thread ............... but what was the secret bombing mission for the B17 (or ............. what target would be in that range ?)
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Post by gibbo on May 2, 2017 16:46:14 GMT 12
I'd been led to believe the crash site was on the farm literally across the road from the end of the runway. Is that not the case then? No, it's about 2.6km from the south end of the main runway. |
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Post by gibbo on May 2, 2017 16:49:12 GMT 12
sorry have not read the whole thread ............... but what was the secret bombing mission for the B17 (or ............. what target would be in that range ?) That's the $million$ question that no-one's ever been able to answer, publicly at least. |
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Post by starr on May 2, 2017 16:49:45 GMT 12
I was in Auckland Hospital in 1857 and one of my fellow patients owned a farm in the vicinity of Brighams Creek Road and what is now known as SH16. He told us about that accident which was very near his property. A neighbours bull went missing and was found several miles away. Can't remember all the details he recounted about the incident.
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