|
|
Post by ngatimozart on Sept 15, 2012 21:12:21 GMT 12
The US Secretary Of Defence, Leon Panetta, will be visiting NZ towards end of next week for talks with NZG. Wonder what we'll get out of it besides a whole lot of yapping. An ACF would be nice ;D  |
|
|
|
Post by expatkiwi on Sept 16, 2012 1:03:06 GMT 12
If the NZ Government asks nicely, maybe more airplanes...
|
|
|
|
Post by ngatimozart on Sept 16, 2012 1:28:56 GMT 12
24 x F16F Block 60s would be nice. ;D
|
|
|
|
Post by expatkiwi on Sept 16, 2012 4:32:21 GMT 12
24 x F16F Block 60s would be nice. ;D Yeah, if they can't give 'em to Taiwan, give 'em to us. |
|
|
|
Post by corsairarm on Sept 16, 2012 7:04:00 GMT 12
How about a C17. Aren't they mothballing some of those in their cuts. It might be of more practicable use than a F16.  |
|
|
|
Post by expatkiwi on Sept 16, 2012 12:28:38 GMT 12
How about a C17. Aren't they mothballing some of those in their cuts. It might be of more practicable use than a F16. That's a point. Or maybe the J-variant of the C-130. |
|
|
|
Post by ngatimozart on Sept 16, 2012 15:29:50 GMT 12
The Indonesians are buying C130Hs so we could sell them our C130NZ or whatever they call them now after they've been through the LEP. They're paying abour US$15 million for 6 stuffed RAAF ones, so we'd get what double that for ours?
|
|
|
|
Post by phil82 on Sept 16, 2012 15:35:17 GMT 12
The ONLY reason this guy is visiting is because of renewed interest in the Pacific and the US will want something from NZ. The boys from Foggy Bottom always have a scheme afoot!
|
|
|
|
Post by raymond on Sept 16, 2012 17:45:18 GMT 12
Be positive: I think we may get some good photos of the aircraft they are coming in?
|
|
|
|
Post by richard1098 on Sept 16, 2012 20:35:07 GMT 12
The ONLY reason this guy is visiting is because of renewed interest in the Pacific and the US will want something from NZ. The boys from Foggy Bottom always have a scheme afoot! And NZ doesn't benefit from a stable and secure Asia Pacific underwritten to a large degree by US military, political and economic power? |
|
|
|
Post by baronbeeza on Sept 16, 2012 21:34:30 GMT 12
Richard, I am sure you must be saying that tongue in cheek.
Especially after the events of recent days.
The US would do better just to keep it's mouth shut at times. I work in many foreign countries and get to see the pure hate. The US could do a lot to improve it's 'image'.
I really do wonder about the use of the word 'stability'. I also worry deeply about politicians and their motives.
|
|
|
|
Post by corsair67 on Sept 16, 2012 21:52:09 GMT 12
Richard, I am sure you must be saying that tongue in cheek. Especially after the events of recent days. The US would do better just to keep it's mouth shut at times. I work in many foreign countries and get to see the pure hate. The US could do a lot to improve it's 'image'. I really do wonder about the use of the word 'stability'. I also worry deeply about politicians and their motives. The US is certainly not perfect in its dealing with many other nations, but I would suggest that those foreign countries that show their pure hate towards the US would suddenly see that the US isn't really so bad after all, if the balance of world power suddenly tilts in the direction of the likes of China or Russia!  |
|
|
|
Post by richard1098 on Sept 16, 2012 21:56:38 GMT 12
Richard, I am sure you must be saying that tongue in cheek. Especially after the events of recent days. Tongue in cheek? Absolutely not. So all civil unrest in regions like the middle east is due to US foreign policy? Local politics, powerplays and ethnic and religious vendettas don't play a role? AFAIK the US government didn't force that ( Egyptian) fool to make that movie or Youtube to carry it. By extension, was the Australian government for example to blame for the Bali bombings? |
|
|
|
Post by baronbeeza on Sept 16, 2012 22:09:16 GMT 12
I was with the RAF during the Falklands, power can be different in it's meanings. I was in Somalia during 'Blackhawk Down' and saw the 'other' side of the western powers. Having spent weeks in Vietnam and chatted with various expats there it is interesting to see their opinions. Some countries may be better off without the 'Western' influence. A 300 year old country with 2000 year old religious beliefs may not be the way forward in trying to influence thousands of years of culture. China would be well ahead in cultural terms and would have been a world power eons ago. www.presentationsunplugged.com/blog/While the internet has a lot of cr*p on it I found this to be easy reading. A lighter side of life.. |
|
|
|
Post by richard1098 on Sept 16, 2012 22:21:12 GMT 12
Some countries may be better off without the 'Western' influence. Some might be, but then how many of them refuse western $ when offered or given? Countries like Zimbabwe or Taliban era Afghanistan don't paint a compelling argument that the west is inherently evil. |
|
|
|
Post by baronbeeza on Sept 16, 2012 22:30:41 GMT 12
I have been to Zimbabwe many times, You may want to choose a better example.
Have you ever lived in Botswana ?
|
|
|
|
Post by richard1098 on Sept 16, 2012 23:02:10 GMT 12
I have been to Zimbabwe many times, You may want to choose a better example. Have you ever lived in Botswana ? Not sure what point you're making: that Zimbabwe really is a bastion of democratic values , or that Botswana is even worse? |
|
|
|
Post by baronbeeza on Sept 16, 2012 23:25:27 GMT 12
Hmm, so you have not been to either then.
Are you in America ?
Both the countries I mentioned had been British colonies. One had a painless independence and has since gone on to flourish. Indeed prosper.
The other the British held onto for too long which eventually lead to a bloody power struggle. The murderous war lord victor of that struggle has got the country to the point it is at now. Western intervention is not going to help.
Even the US are too smart to meddle there, and the British are doing their best to distance themselves from it as well. Then again there is no oil in Zimbabwe but that may be best for another thread.
NZ has a better defence force than Fiji.... I think something would be said if we up and decided to impose 'our' will on that country.
Having the power is one thing, - it is the abuse of that power that causes the strife.
|
|
|
|
Post by richard1098 on Sept 17, 2012 19:46:28 GMT 12
Both the countries I mentioned had been British colonies. One had a painless independence and has since gone on to flourish. Indeed prosper. The other the British held onto for too long which eventually lead to a bloody power struggle. The murderous war lord victor of that struggle has got the country to the point it is at now. Western intervention is not going to help. I don't see any disagreement here about the current state of Zimbabwe. But what about the UDI (November 11, 1965 - before Botswana became independent) under Ian Smith. Can you blame British policy for events after that? LOL....no. |
|
|
|
Post by baronbeeza on Sept 17, 2012 21:48:20 GMT 12
We are getting away from the American foreign affairs thing but what I was trying to point out was that colonisation of territories has been tried.
If we look at Africa we can see all the 'strong' European countries had a play there. Britain was probably the more successful as it turned out.
Italy, Belgium, Portugal, Netherlands, France, Germany all had colonies and outposts in Africa. Today there is very little tying any of the former colonies to the 'parent' European country.
Botswana was a little unique in that the diamonds were discovered just months after the country gained independence.
It shares borders with Zambia and Zimbabwe, a big contrast for just a few hundred metre border.
I was suggesting that colonisation is hard work, especially in this day and age.
While the Americans are not taking over a country as such the involvement does still draw the ire of the local populace.
Maybe it is the media but the landing of the forces on Mogadishu beach, a la Da Nang, did draw comparisons. All the media hype and gung ho attitude designed for the folks back home has another viewing audience also. The rest of the world and the locals !
I was also in Texas for the build up to Gulf War 1. Same thing, all the patriotism amounts to little more than a form of politics.
From my recent experiences in Indonesia it is this that seems to rile some of the Muslem countries.
Media coverage on CNN that is supposed to pave the way for the American population may have a completely unintentional and adverse affect on other populations.
I actually thought the closing remarks of both Obamas and Hillary's speeches last week to have antagonising features. Why mention the 'G' word in this day and age ?
It is the radicals that go off, light the blue touch paper and retire style. The truth is that they are only teenagers and always a ready supply of them. It would take a very strong military force to beat that.
Just like in Vietnam I believe conventional forces with F-16's or whatever will always have a battle on their hands.
Politicians seem to like starting these wars, when are they going to get the skills to actually finish them in style ?
That would be my question for this character coming out here soon.
|
|
