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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2022 8:53:36 GMT 12
Detail question: what height serials are NZ3031 and her sisters wearing in this photo, and what colour were the codes?  ALB090772924 by Zac Yates, on Flickr That unknown airfield was RNZAF Station Ohakea, and it as the famous race that Doug St George flew in NZ3283 vs the C.O. of No. 1 (Bomber) Operational Training Unit in Ventura NZ4543 ZX-F. ALB951704031 - Kittyhawk with 4 Operational Training Unit and Ventura with 1 Operational Training Unit. A race between Curtiss P-40 Kittyhawk NZ3283 (left) and Lockheed PV-1 Ventura NZ4543 ZX-F. Royal New Zealand Air Force Station, Ohakea. Air Force Museum of New Zealand  Hands up those who would like to see this recreated at a Kiwi airshow? Not necessarily at the same altitude, mind you! |
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Post by davidd on May 23, 2022 15:13:57 GMT 12
As has been pointed out elsewhere, the Kittyhawks assembled at Harewood in 1942 had serial numbers applied which were considerably smaller than the ones applied (more or less contemporaneously) to Kittyhawks at Hobsonville. If the Hobsonville ones had theirs in the usual 8 inch high numbers, perhaps Harewood used six inch high ones? Special note, there is very little written evidence in historical records about application of serial numbers on RNZAF aircraft during WW2. The photographs taken of 15 Squadron Kittyhawks at Whenuapai show both sizes of serial number in different photographs. The smaller numbers were located noticeably lower on the rear fuselage. It seems likely that Harewood manufactured their own (undersized) stencils out of ignorance. A number of Hudsons were also assembled at Harewood, and I have often wondered if these same stencils were used on them?
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Post by planecrazy on May 5, 2023 18:48:11 GMT 12
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Malcolm Laird
Flight Sergeant
Currently drawing various RNZAF decals
Posts: 24
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Post by Malcolm Laird on Jan 6, 2024 14:48:45 GMT 12
Just found this: NZ3031  I've recently interacted with Dave Homewood about the colour of NZ3031's code letters in this photo. I'd had the idea that they were red, but after doing a little test in PhotoShop, Grey seems more likely. Cheers, Malcolm |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 6, 2024 14:59:40 GMT 12
Yeah, I thought they were red at first too, but Barf Bosher convinced me that they were grey. The red codes did not come along till later with No. 4 (F) OTU.
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Post by Antonio on Apr 22, 2024 16:24:22 GMT 12
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 22, 2024 16:57:28 GMT 12
What a shame you did not get them, I'd love to see high res scans of these without the watermarks.
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Post by Antonio on Apr 22, 2024 20:50:46 GMT 12
What a shame you did not get them, I'd love to see high res scans of these without the watermarks. Sold for $77 plus change! |
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Post by shorty on Apr 23, 2024 19:47:36 GMT 12
Another"named" aircraft that was part of the four ship formation from Masterton with NZ 3oo8 and others was called "Thundergutz (dont know the serial t this stage. The names were apparently lifted fromFm A centerfold cartoon in Australian "MAN" magazine.
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Post by oj on Apr 23, 2024 21:44:41 GMT 12
Welcome back Shorty. Such a relief to see you are still extant and fully facultied (to coin a word).
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 23, 2024 21:51:08 GMT 12
Welcome back Shorty!!
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Post by davidd on Apr 24, 2024 14:48:01 GMT 12
Yes, that name THUNDERGUTZ certainly rings a bell witth me too. There was some sort of scramble to name the No. 14 Squadron Kittyhawks (no idea when this occurred unfortunately, but would have to have been sometime between about June 1942 and February 1943, which was their period at Masterton; certainly all those with these names seemed to have them by this time.) Peter Gifford seemed to recall (from memory) quite a lot about the naming; he was most closely associated with MAGNOLIA MUFFLEWURT and UMSLOPOGAAS (NZ3008?) Some of the background to this last-named aircraft on this thread is not particularly accurate with respect to the original (fictitious) African warrior. Apparently the author, H Rider Haggard, was not too concerned with real African history, although he relied on the general sweep and smell of this continent in those days to provide him with the inspiration for his characters, and probably made a small fortune with his book sales. From memory, the book portrays this fictitious character as a Zulu warrior, and he was cast as the (illigitimate) son of the tribe's chief (who was a real character in history). However their close relationship was concealed from the son, who went through his life as an ordinary warrior, but obviously he was possessed of great leadership qualities. It is about 60 years ago that I read any of Haggard's books, and think I only read "Alan Quatermain", so totally unqualified to pontificate on anything further (such as King Solomon's Mines", "She", "Nada the Lily", or "The Queen of Sheeba".) I think Peter Gifford (14 Squadron pilot at the time, ex 488 Sqdn) read the lot!
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Post by planecrazy on May 20, 2024 20:38:36 GMT 12
Wanting to model an earlyRNZAF 'E' model P40 find myself totally confused as to what scheme this model would have worn during her early service life in New Zealand? Would be most grateful if someone could clear up my confusion on this subject? There is quite a bit of information on the net re the later M and N models and the schemes they wore. Haven’t been able to find as much on the early jobs, it seems they came to New Zealand with brown/green RAF colours then some got green/grey and green/blue schemes. I realise what you find on the net is open to interpretation this also adds to a modellers confusion, see below some pic’s I have found, wondering what/which of these are closer to accurate, thank you very much. Assuming the Wigram P40 would have had an accurate scheme, this is how I saw her I think around 2005, as many would know she isn’t in these colours now.  Now relying on models is opening a can of worms, would this blue/green scheme have been accurate, I remember reading these early ones stayed in New Zealand or I seem to remember some end up in Tonga?  Later models yes, wondering if the early ones wore similar schemes, looks very close to the Wigram P40 during restoration image above?  Another late model this time green/grey, would this be accurate for a M model and would the E models have had this scheme?  Thank you...... |
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 20, 2024 21:37:02 GMT 12
An early service P-40 scheme as they arrived in NZ in 1942 would have seen the P-40E's in the Dupont equivalent colours of RAF Dark Earth and RAF Dark Green with RAF Sky undersides, just as they came out of the factory in the standard RAF scheme.
The NZ Blue-Grey colours were not applied till later in the war. Not all of them received it either.
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Post by Antonio on May 21, 2024 9:21:45 GMT 12
NZ3010 definitely had the white stripes on its tail feathers.
Not sure if it changed from green/brown though
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Post by davidd on May 21, 2024 12:50:05 GMT 12
Making sweeping general statements on the camouflage schemes of RNZAF P-40s (no matter which model) can be a precarious path to tread (I have made my mistakes), but generally I would say that most of the early P-40Es operated at least the first year or two of their lives in the original RAF schemes and colours (and this would include the ex-Tonga aircraft, which were manufactured at about the same time), although a few of these may have been repainted by their first American squadron [68th FS] in Tonga) with olive drab/medium gray) paints. Our P-40Ms and P-40Ns arrived with the Olive drab and medium gray colours too, and some had the leading/trailing edges of all flying surfaces daubed with medium green "blotches", and likely "our" small number of P-40K-10s/15s also had schemes of this type (as almost certainly did the two ex-Tonga P-40K-1s). Some of the photos of modern interpretations of wartime roundels as worn on RNZAF P-40s have the blue shade much too light in my opinion, but the exact shade cannot be stated with any certainty (as with other colours of the time!) Many say it was actually the same colour as RAF identification blue, but with a matt finish, which tended to make it appear lighter in photographs. And fading of the brightness of the colour itself has to be considered. When it comes to P-40s with our two Fighter OTUs (and those other two small units, the FGS, and GTS), the problems of trying to state exact colours just gets even more complicated! Any official instructions on repainting of the RNZAF's P-40s were probably destroyed by the end of WW2, so don't expect to see anything definitive suddenly leap out from behind the bushes. The few slight mentions contained in the only surviving colour scheme/marking file have already been scrutinised and argued over. Sadly.
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 21, 2024 13:19:04 GMT 12
(and this would include the ex-Tonga aircraft, which were manufactured at about the same time), although a few of these may have been repainted by their first American squadron [68th FS] in Tonga) with olive drab/medium gray) paints. Whilst it is indeed possible a few of the Tonga P-40E's got the Olive Drab/Neutral Grey repaint, every photo i have found of those aircraft has them in two tone camouflage. Even most of those aircraft seen later at Santo are still in the original RAF-style camouflage. Whether they are still Dark Earth/Dark Green or have been oversprayed with the NZ Blue-Grey on top of the Dark Earth is anyone's guess. By that time the Hudsons in the Pacific had all had that NZ Blue-Grey treatment. |
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Post by planecrazy on Sept 30, 2024 7:56:43 GMT 12
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Post by davidd on Sept 30, 2024 14:45:05 GMT 12
Some of those P-40s pulled out of Russia over the years are real eye openers, many in origianal factory finishes, but with Russian additions. And John Saunders is a very clever chap, tachnically and hostorically.
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Post by Antonio on Sept 30, 2024 17:20:36 GMT 12
(and this would include the ex-Tonga aircraft, which were manufactured at about the same time), although a few of these may have been repainted by their first American squadron [68th FS] in Tonga) with olive drab/medium gray) paints. Whilst it is indeed possible a few of the Tonga P-40E's got the Olive Drab/Neutral Grey repaint, every photo i have found of those aircraft has them in two tone camouflage. Even most of those aircraft seen later at Santo are still in the original RAF-style camouflage. Whether they are still Dark Earth/Dark Green or have been oversprayed with the NZ Blue-Grey on top of the Dark Earth is anyone's guess. By that time the Hudsons in the Pacific had all had that NZ Blue-Grey treatment. Here is a pic from RNZAF: The First Decade 
"A late-war shot of Flt Lt Fred Adams in NZ3095, one of the 'Tonga P-40s'. White lettering under the windscreen read 'SUITABLE FOR AROMATIC FUELS'. Its color (sic) scheme was foliage green and grey-green" |
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That unknown airfield was RNZAF Station Ohakea, and it as the famous race that Doug St George flew in NZ3283 vs the C.O. of No. 1 (Bomber) Operational Training Unit in Ventura NZ4543 ZX-F.
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