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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 21, 2010 12:00:44 GMT 12
More great photos NZ1009, thanks! Do you know anything more about the three camouflaged Harvards in formation? Can you see the serials on them in the original? I wonder if they too are OTU examples or if they're Army Co-op.
I wonder if those late 1950's three-ship formations, particularly the over the top of the loop shot, are the CFS Wigram display team.
That last shot is spectacular.
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Post by johnlanham on Dec 21, 2010 12:58:39 GMT 12
The formation colour shot is the 1970 Red Checkers, over Birdling's Flat.
R1 Sqn Ldr Larry Olsen
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Post by johnlanham on Dec 21, 2010 13:01:04 GMT 12
The formation colour shot is the 1970 Red Checkers, over Birdling's Flat.
R1 Sqn Ldr Larry Olsen
R2 Flt Lt John Hosie
R3 Flt Lt Graeme Goldsmith
R4 Flt Lt Doug Lloyd
R5 Flt Lt John Lanham
Camera ship Flt Lt Ross Lamb
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 21, 2010 13:10:12 GMT 12
Thanks John, it is good to get such details as this.
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Post by Bruce on Dec 21, 2010 15:30:10 GMT 12
Do you know anything more about the three camouflaged Harvards in formation? Can you see the serials on them in the original? I wonder if they too are OTU examples or if they're Army Co-op. They look to be in Gunnery trainer config - rollover rear canopies and underwing bomb racks are fitted. Second one looks like NZ1097. |
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Post by Chris F on Dec 21, 2010 15:50:34 GMT 12
This is a great thread...I am a great Harvard fan...what a great aircraft and those were the days....AWESOME!
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 21, 2010 17:33:16 GMT 12
Yeah Bruce, the canopy configuration is why I wondered about Army Co-op as their Harvards carried air gunners (as did their Hinds and Vincents). They also had bomb racks fitted to their's I believe, their Hinds and Vincents certainly did. But a Gunnery School is cetrtanly another option.
Where's Shamus? He's a bit of an expert in the Army Co-op Squadrons, I wonder what he thinks.
If it is NZ1097 it won't be Army Co-op though, as NZ1097 only arrived here in September 1944, and those squadrons were long since disbanded by then.
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Post by shamus on Dec 21, 2010 20:48:35 GMT 12
Dave, although I love the Harvard I am no expert on them. The Hind I know more intimately.
I would have thought that if they were Army Co-op Sqn. they would be wearing the Sqn. marking such as in your posting heading above, UY being the No. 21 AC Sqn. Every AC Sqn. Harvard, Hind or Vincent that i have seen photographed, including the No.22 AC at Norwood, carried these markings.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 21, 2010 22:02:09 GMT 12
They may have just arrived on the squadron of course. I have a photo of NZ958 with No. 20 (AC) Squadron in camouflage identical but no codes. I think I have already added it to this thread.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 22, 2010 13:02:38 GMT 12
NZ1009 kindly sent me a large version of that three-ship camouflaged Harvard photo and I have analised it with Photoshop. The closest aircraft to the camera looks to be NZ1024.
This aircraft was with No. 22 (Army Co-op) Squadron based at Norwood, Canterbury, from March-May 1943 before transferring to No. 21 (Army Co-op) Squadron at Milson, Manuwatu and serving there May-August 1943.
The second aircraft looks to possibly be NZ1037. Does anyone know if that aircraft served with an Army Co-op Squadron?
The third aircraft's serial is indistinguishable.
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Post by pjw4118 on Dec 22, 2010 17:33:47 GMT 12
Great photos, the Harvard is an old noisy favourite once found lurking at every station for continuation flying and in so many playgrounds.I love the low level head on shot and I am sure that the photographer ducked and had a bodily function. I have seen the same approach on video with a Spitfire and the reporter certainly walked away bow legged as he was talking to the camera when to passed (, pun intended) . A pleasant task these holidays is to read all 18 pages of this thread, yes nerdton and anorakville here we come. Merry Xmas
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Post by SEAN on Dec 23, 2010 7:34:12 GMT 12
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Post by NZ1009 on Dec 23, 2010 9:24:44 GMT 12
Some more - All RNZAF or RNZAF Museum official NZ1058 - 19-Jun, 1953, Wigram, Undercarriage failed. Less than 6 months later it was landed with the undercarriage up!  NZ1034 - 8-Dec, 1951, Wigram, Heavy braking  NZ1072 - 13-Feb, 1948, Nausori, Fiji, Landed undercarriage up  NZ905 - Shipped to New Zealand on "Wairuna" in March 1941 and assembled at Hobsonville. BOC 14 March 1941. To No.1 SFTS Wigram. Written off 31 October 1941 in crash 1 mile east of Irwell after pilot baled out. Written off books on 21 November 1944 as reduced to produce.  Looks like they are over Lincoln, south of Wigram. As far as I can determine, NZ934 = 14, NZ940 = 19, NZ939 = 20, NZ936 = 21, NZ941 = 22, NZ937 = 23, NZ943 = 25, NZ945 = 27  Birdling's Flat was quite remote in the 1940's. Interestingly, the aircraft on the airfield appear to be Oxfords and a biplane (Vildebeest?)  |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 23, 2010 11:03:45 GMT 12
Great stuff! Is that photo of Harvard NZ1081 sitting on an ice lake? I cannot see snow tracks so wondered if it was on ice?
It is likely to be a Vildebeest at Birdlings Flat, yes. They used at least one there for towing the target. They had also used Gordons for this but I think it was Vildes by April 1942, not certain though. John 'Snow' Barr collided with one of the target Vildes in his Harvard when he was taking off, causing a spectacular crash and a lot of trouble for the Vilde pilot who'd rolled across the runway.
The Harvard formation that is seen above the Birdlings Flat aerial shot looks to be from the same sequence as the photo that Maurice Conly based a great painting on, that became a Contact magazine cover.
I never knew the RNZAF had Harvard/s in Fiji. What unit was it part of? Comms Flight? Or No. 6 Squadron?
Great stuff Sean and NZ1009.
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Post by NZ1009 on Dec 23, 2010 16:10:50 GMT 12
All RNZAF or RNZAF Museum official Dave - Another one from the same sortie  Presumably a hangar at Wigram?    Mt. Cook in the background, Green Saddle, High Peak, Middle Peak and Low Peak left to right, South Face (faces Hermitage) at right  |
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Post by strikemaster on Dec 23, 2010 16:28:00 GMT 12
Wow these are good pics. I'm thinking a Harvard kit is coming on.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 23, 2010 18:21:51 GMT 12
I don't think that is a Wigram hangar, maybe Harewood or Ohakea? The Wigram ones didn't have the angle kink in the roof like that as far as I recall. Here's that cover:  |
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Post by NZ1009 on Dec 23, 2010 19:59:16 GMT 12
Dave - this is another photo from the same sortie - looks very much like the painting - actually I thought the fuselage band was blue?  |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 23, 2010 20:44:30 GMT 12
That's the one!
I believe the band was red for one unit and blue for another, the SFTS's had an Intermediate Training Squadron (ITS) and an Advanced Training Squadron (ATS). I am not certain if that is the differentiation or if the red and blue band was for A and B Flights within those units. Someone will know I'm sure.
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Post by hairy on Dec 23, 2010 22:56:13 GMT 12
I thought it was about time that I stuck my nose into this wonderful thread. First up here is NZ903 (Inst.107) at Hobsonville.  NZ954 (Inst.149).  NZ1010 at Whenuapai.   NZ1012.  NZ1013 at Hobsonville.  NZ1013 at Waharoa.  NZ1014 at Mangere.  NZ1014 at Hobsonville.    I will post more tomorrow.  |
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