The Harvard Pile

[oggie2620]

Thanks for your very prompt response Angels. Then Michelle at the Museum will be gaining another one to go with the others. Have now bid on an RNZAF Oxford, a 75 Sqn Vamp and a 75 Sqn Canberra aswell.... The Vamp and Canby will go to Glen if I get em.

[NZ1009]

All RNZAF or RNZAF Museum official:

NZ904 9-Nov 1944 Wigram Take off, flaps down
or
NZ904 23-Nov 1944 Wigram Engine failure


NZ908 and NZ914 4-Oct 1943 Woodbourne Collision on ground


NZ908 and NZ914 4-Oct 1943 Woodbourne Collision on ground


NZ922 3-Nov 1941 Blenheim Undercarriage retracted


NZ928 23-Jan 1943 Woodbourne Crashed near Woodbourne during training flight. The aircraft stalled and spun into the ground while executing a steep turn at 400 feet. LAC John Rutherfurd killed.


NZ932 2-Oct 1944 Wigram Taxy accident


NZ938 19-Jun 1945 Wigram Forced landing


NZ939 and Oxford NZ1342 23-Nov 1944 Wigram Collided on ground


NZ947 26-Aug 1944 Woodbourne


NZ948 1-Dec 1944 Norwood Heavy landing


NZ955 18-Aug 1941 Woodbourne Crash, night


Dave - the three aircraft are NZ1023, NZ1027, NZ1024 22 Army Co-op Sqdn, Norwood, early 1943


Mit - the following photo was taken during Exercise Roundhouse - April, 1958

[Dave Homewood]

Awesome shots there NZ1009.

[Damon]

Nice to see some pictures of the MK II Harvards.Some a bit worse for wear!Thank you NZ1009.

[mit]

Thanks NZ1009, I find the cross over with the rear fues very interesting.

[NZ1009]

Some more MKIIs - All RNZAF or RNZAF Museum official:

NZ905


NZ907 and NZ919


NZ909


NZ909


NZ913


NZ926


NZ927 - looking very much like Shorty's photo of NZ923


NZ932


NZ938 at Hobsonville


NZ941

[Damon]

Can any tell me what is the correct camo. scheme for the MK II Harvards.I dont think I have seen any MK II that has the same camo scheme.Were they sprayed as required in any pattern?I dont think the pattern conforms to any RAF scheme.Any suggestions?

[NZ1009]

Some more MKIIs - All RNZAF or RNZAF Museum official:

NZ944


NZ946


NZ947


NZ947, NZ923, NZ950, NZ1078


NZ948


NZ948


NZ948


NZ956


NZ956


NZ963

[Dave Homewood]

Simply excellent photos, thanks so much for posting all these.

[baz62]

Where abouts was Norwood? Was it in Canterbury??

[Dave Homewood]

Yes, south-west of Wigram. Have a look on my website there's a page on it.

[oggie2620]

I now have the NZ1049 Harvard pic so am now trying to scan it. My usual method is not working so need to find another way!!

[angelsonefive]

Don't give up, Oggie.

With regard to the pic. of NZ904 sitting on her tummy on the grass..
I am inclined to go for the engine failure on 23/11/44.
The prop. blades are bent rearwards which is a sign, as far as I know, that the engine was not generating power at the time of the blade vs ground ( or whatever ) contact.

Thanks for posting these NZ1009.
Wonderful stuff.

[NZ1009]

With regard to paint schemes for Harvards, the following three drawings by G.D.Mansfield have appeared in Wings magazine.
Of note is NZ927 in the second drawing where the first sentence of the comment reads:

"NZ927, Gloss red overall, black antiddazzle panel, "27" and fuselage band blue."

In the three photos that follow the drawings, I think that NZ903 is painted as NZ914 in the second drawing.
The darkness of the yellow is because of the use of orthochromatic film as described by Shorty in Post 301 of this thread.
However I suspect the photos of NZ923 and NZ927 were taken, probably using orthochromatic film, when they were actually painted red.

Drawing 1


Drawing 2


Drawing 3


RNZAF or RNZAF Museum official:
NZ903


Photo first posted by Shorty
NZ923


RNZAF or RNZAF Museum official:
NZ927

[Dave Homewood]

Gloss red? That would have looked really cool if it was for real. I wonder if there was evidence or was it just supposition though? What unit did these 'red' aircraft belong to?

Did we have any instructors who were Barons? ;D

[shorty]

I think G.D. was mislead by the ortho film trap. Compare the roundel centre with the supposed "red" overall. Also looking back through the forum there are shots of NZ 932, 927, 928, 929, 923 on the line with engines running and they are in identical schemnes, there is another formation flying shot of 923 and others none of them appear as red.
You would have to ask yourself why would just three be painted red? Why did the have the roundels painted different?
Also look at the fuselage bands, they are a different shade too.

[Dave Homewood]

I agree with you Nev, it's all a bit odd and I think the writer has been mislead too.

The only way to prove there was/were red Harvards is to find a coloured photo, or a photo in b&w that shows the red one sitting next to a normal yellow one. I doubt that will happen. It would make a great 'what-if' model though.

[Damon]

I would say that the camo. scheme is based on the type A scheme of the RAF .The P-40 were initially painted in this scheme as well.I dont think that the RAF B scheme was used on our P-40/Harvard aircraft.However it would be fair to say that the Harvards were painted in the Dark Green/ Dark Earth colours but variations between aircraft to aircraft. Apparently on the P-40's painted in these colours(in the factory) they used mats to get a uniform camouflage pattern.Probably something not avaliable or considered when the Japanese were so close to our shores.
As for a gloss red scheme,it does seem unlikely as we were under threat of the Japanese advance.

Great pictures of the MK II's NZ1009.

[Dave Homewood]

The only reason I can think of having a red aircraft in wartime would be for training air gunners to shoot at it during fighter affiliation maybe, or using it as a lead aircraft in formation flying practice, but both still seem unlikely.

[oggie2620]

Thought you might be interested in this first day cover:
www.newzealandcovers.com/product-13095.htm