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Post by Damon on May 12, 2011 20:32:13 GMT 12
Great pictures. NZ1060 is now being rebuilt in Australia by a private individual after the purchase from the RAAF. I am enjoying this thread.
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 12, 2011 21:05:55 GMT 12
That last one of NZ1062 must be bare metal with a yellow panel and red buzz numbers. An unusual colour scheme. This is one of the best threads on the forum, a surprise on every page. Thanks to all who are contributing these photos.
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 12, 2011 21:11:57 GMT 12
Something about the adf.serials entries that are being quoted - I note they all say "From RAF/FAA lend-lease allocations". I was not aware that any Harvards/SNJ's were allocated to the Royal Navy Fleet Air Arm. In the UK the FAA flying training was done with RAF aircraft and instructors on RAF Stations permenantly loaned for the duration to the Navy. In Canada they had a RCAF Empire Air Training Scheme station that trained FAA pilots on Harvards. And those pilots trained in the US Navy system used SNJ's of the US Navy. So was there actually a genuine allocation for Harvards to the Royal Navy? Or is this an error?
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Post by shorty on May 12, 2011 22:22:54 GMT 12
Or did the US just lump all aircraft going to the UK on lendlease in together as RAF/FAA? That might have kept the paperwork easier and allow the Brits to allot aircraft types as they saw fit?
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Post by mit on May 12, 2011 22:29:45 GMT 12
Something about the adf.serials entries that are being quoted - I note they all say "From RAF/FAA lend-lease allocations". I was not aware that any Harvards/SNJ's were allocated to the Royal Navy Fleet Air Arm. In the UK the FAA flying training was done with RAF aircraft and instructors on RAF Stations permenantly loaned for the duration to the Navy. In Canada they had a RCAF Empire Air Training Scheme station that trained FAA pilots on Harvards. And those pilots trained in the US Navy system used SNJ's of the US Navy. So was there actually a genuine allocation for Harvards to the Royal Navy? Or is this an error? From the Fleet Air Arm Archives website; "The Fleet Air Arm acquired a total of 236 Harvards from 1943 till at least 1955. Prior to that time Fleet Air Arm crews used the Harvard trainer as part of the Empire Air Training Scheme, EATS (also called the British Commonwealth Air Training Plan, BCATP in Canada). The initial responsibility for establishing, administering and operating this complex plan was placed upon the shoulders of the RCAF, RAAF, RNZAF and SAAF from 1940. The Fleet Air Arm did not acquire its own squadron aircraft until 1943. " Harvard in the Fleet Air Arm Museum is EX976 which was taken on charge with the Navy;   cheers |
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 12, 2011 22:34:59 GMT 12
Thanks Mit, that explains it. Cheers.
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Post by NZ1009 on May 12, 2011 22:52:14 GMT 12
Hi John - that photo of 948 being washed is, as far as I can recall, the only colour wartime photo that I have seen. Some MKIIIs - All RNZAF or RNZAF Museum official, comments from ADF Serials, accidents (up until 1956) from NZ Archives: NZ1064 Mk III Previously EX943. From RAF/FAA lend-lease allocations. Shipped to New Zealand on "Thomas J. Rusk" in October 1943 and assembled at Hobsonville. BOC 01 November 1943. To No.4 FTS Wigram. Crashed while on night flying training at Wigram 23 September 1949. Written off books Wigram and cockpit converted to INST146 with No.3 TAF Squadron at Wigram. NZ1064 10-Jan 1945 Ohakea Taxy accident NZ1064 12-Sep 1949 Wigram Overshot landing   NZ1065 Mk III 88-14889 Previously EX944. From RAF/FAA lend-lease allocations. Shipped to New Zealand on "Thomas J. Rusk" in October 1943 and assembled at Hobsonville. BOC 01 November 1943. With No.1 (TAF) Squadron 08 December 1955-03 October 1956. Eighth Mk III to be converted to Mk 3* between May and November 1957. To storage at Wigram July 1962. Took part in Harvard 30th Anniversary Flypast over Christchurch on 22 March 1971. Took part in final Harvard Flypast over Christchurch on 24 June 1977. Last RNZAF pilot to fly her in June 77 was Dave Peters whose name was on the LH cowl. Declared surplus to requirements and sold by GSB tender number 022107 to W. Williams, Mount Maunganui for $6300 on 17 July 1978. Price included engine and propellor. Registered to Harvard Syndicate, Mount Maunganui as ZK-ENF on 20 June 1978. To Harvard 65 Syndicate, Auckland on 14 February 1984. Airworthy and flying in New Zealand. NZ1065 27-Nov 1943 Karioi Forced landing, weather NZ1065 27-Mar 1952 Wigram Wing tip hit ground NZ1065 6-Feb 1953 Wigram Touched high hill NZ1065 and NZ1085 25-Oct 1955 Wigram Collision on ground NZ1065 7-Mar 1956 Whenuapai Hit power lines In the following two photos, the roundels have no kiwi and the tail/wing tips do not appear to match the red of the roundels. Given how 1087 looks, maybe it was another experimental paint job?          Not sure of the origin of this one but presumably taken around the same time as the first two above?  |
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Post by mit on May 13, 2011 6:52:24 GMT 12
Not sure of the origin of this one but presumably taken around the same time as the first two above? Interesting to note this has the ferns in the roundels. Thanks Mit, that explains it. Cheers. Yea I didn't know that either, there's my something learned for the day! |
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Post by Damon on May 13, 2011 9:40:20 GMT 12
The rear shot of 1065 is taken about 1971.The kiwi was added to the roundel about 1972 onwards.The first shot would have been taken around mid to late 1960's, the second picture shows the change in colours from silver/fire orange to grey/ international orange. The fire orange colour faded over time.
Interesting to see in the pictutre .7 and .9 the number 4 on the side intake denoting the aircrafts position in the team.Cant make out the pilots name though.
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Post by classicman on May 13, 2011 13:29:37 GMT 12
Earlier in the thread FLTLT Dave Peters was named as the final flypast pilot - that should be the name on the cowl.
Fantastic thread - this would be the basis of a great book.
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Post by NZ1009 on May 13, 2011 23:44:53 GMT 12
In the pictures pictures .7 and .9 of NZ1065, the name on the side intake, following the number 4, is FLT LT D.S.LLOYD who, according to Dave's New Zealand Airshow Display Teams web-site, was Red 4 for the period 1968 - 1972.
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Post by harvard1041 on May 14, 2011 5:32:04 GMT 12
Just a bit of info some might find interested... I think Mit is spot on about the RAF/ RN allocations. Photo below I found interesting - for us Harvard geeks - it's the original Log Books for 1044 - showing the aircraft accepted by the USAAC from NAA Dallas - then the British Air Commision - then thru to the RNZAF.   ..the dates are a few days apart - ie Test Flights etc ...and then the two data plates are stamped - the USAAC one and the North American Dallas one. Rgds Hvd1041 |
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Post by mit on May 14, 2011 8:12:57 GMT 12
Earlier in the thread FLTLT Dave Peters was named as the final flypast pilot - that should be the name on the cowl. Fantastic thread - this would be the basis of a great book. NZ1065 didn't have checkered cowl for the final fly past or in fact take part in the fly past as it was the back up aircraft. Only NZ1015 and NZ1076 did as they they were the two which did the aeros at the completion of the fly past. In the following two photos, the roundels have no kiwi and the tail/wing tips do not appear to match the red of the roundels. Given how 1087 looks, maybe it was another experimental paint job? You can just make out the fern decal they had for a short while. Cheers Mit |
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Post by baz62 on May 14, 2011 10:33:54 GMT 12
Earlier in the thread FLTLT Dave Peters was named as the final flypast pilot - that should be the name on the cowl. Fantastic thread - this would be the basis of a great book. NZ1066 didn't have checkered cowl for the final fly past or in fact take part in the fly past as it was the back up aircraft. Only NZ1015 and NZ1076 did as they they were the two which did the aeros at the completion of the fly past. t Did you mean NZ1065 Mit? ;D |
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Post by mit on May 14, 2011 18:26:07 GMT 12
Haha so I did, thanks Baz, I will change that!
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Post by shorty on May 14, 2011 21:07:39 GMT 12
The change to Kiwi roundels was approved on 8 Sept 1970 by the Defence Council
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Post by Tony on May 17, 2011 2:59:34 GMT 12
Here is a pic of NZ909 painted as INST909.
At first I thought there were no other markings until we upsized the image through scanning.
It shows INST909 in black on the red fuselage band.
There is a notation on the reverse which I will add soon.
Full size scan is here:
www.flickr.com/photos/kiwi_connection/5724924415/sizes/o/in/set-72157626480672943/.As promised, the notation on the reverse has INST 909 (Ex NZ909) Wigram. And the name: R Killck
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grey11
Leading Aircraftman
Posts: 2
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Post by grey11 on May 21, 2011 12:01:19 GMT 12
Thanks for sharing. The pictures from Kiwi Connection in flickr are very nice. Cheers...    |
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Post by McFly on Jun 3, 2011 22:00:20 GMT 12
Just a nice photo of NZ1015   (RNZAF Official) |
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Post by barf on Jun 7, 2011 14:43:09 GMT 12
The change to Kiwi roundels was approved on 8 Sept 1970 by the Defence Council The Silver fern decals were applied from 1959 through to the adoption of the Kiwi in late 1970. The Experimental scheme on 1087 was approved as a trial in October 1969. It was Red, White and Silver fuselage with Silver wings with Red Tips. I would guess that 1065 is wearing the other (winning) trial scheme of grey & int orange. The Red,White scheme was also suggested for the Devons. The Air Force Museum has the original hand painted drawings for the proposed scheme. Barf |
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