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Post by Dave Homewood on Jun 2, 2019 10:06:23 GMT 12
One of No. 15 (Fighter) Squadron's six Harvards. So far I have only pinpointed NZ981 as JZ-S.
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Post by davidd on Jun 2, 2019 12:18:58 GMT 12
In case anybody is curious. The Kittyhawk shown here (photo taken at Whenuapai about late September/early October 1942) was assembled at the temporary assembly unit at Harewood, as were twenty Hudsons. It is noticeable that the serial number has been applied in a rather small size, which seems to have been typical of aircraft assembled at that station. The ones assembled contemporaneously at Hobsonville that required NZ serials to be added seemed to use the larger "standard" size, 8" I think. And whilst on the subject of serial number sizes, the early Harvards (the Mk. IIs that is) had VERY small serial numbers applied at the NAA factory, as well as very large under-wing serials. Reminds me somewhat of the Piper aircraft shipped to NZ in the 1950s (mostly Super Cubs, Tripacers, maybe Colts) that also had tiny, factory-applied ZK- registration letters, so obviously these details must have been "wired" or otherwise communicated from New Zealand in advance. Needless to say, these mini-registrations did not comply with the NZ civil aviation regulations, although these had been amended in about 1949 to permit the use of smaller sized letters on the fin/rudder areas.
David D
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Post by davidd on Jun 2, 2019 12:30:33 GMT 12
The six Harvard Mk. IIs delivered to 15 Squadron at Whenuapai in about June 1942 were NZ976, 978, 980, 981, 983, 984; all had previously served with 2 SFTS, Woodbourne. They were all handed over to 17 Squadron, which formed up at Whenuapai in late October 1942 to take the place of 15 (which had been shipped to Tonga minus its aircraft); the new squadron soon moved to Seagrove in November 1942. No. 17 Sqdn received two Mk. IIA Harvards (NZ1018, 1019) in January 1943, probably to make up shortfall in Kittyhawks at this time.
David D
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mgr
Leading Aircraftman
Posts: 8
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Post by mgr on Jun 3, 2019 0:55:36 GMT 12
One of No. 15 (Fighter) Squadron's six Harvards. So far I have only pinpointed NZ981 as JZ-S. Hi,
Thanks for this information. Seen other Harvard's with other squadron codes, any idea which are those: FE -> No.2 OTU, Ohakea? XO -> ? UY -> ?
Thx,
Marcel
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jun 3, 2019 12:25:25 GMT 12
Codes on Operational RNZAF Harvards included:
HQ was No. 14 (Fighter) Squadron, P-40's and Harvards (later used by the Gunnery Training School)
JZ was No. 15 (Fighter) Squadron, P-40's and Harvards (later used by No. 17 Squadron at Whenuapai and Seagrove)
XO was No. 16 (Fighter) Squadron, P-40's and Harvards (same aircraft later used by No.'s 14, 15, 17 and 18 Squadron at Fairhall)
FE was No. 2 (Fighter) Operational Training Unit, P-40's and Harvards
OD was No. 4 (Fighter) Operational Training Unit, P-40's and Harvards
PA was No. 8 (General Reconnaissance) Squadron, Vincents and Harvards (later used by No. 30 Squadron Harvards)
ZG was No. 20 (Army Cooperation) Squadron, Hinds and Harvards
UY was No. 21 (Army Cooperation) Squadron, Hinds and Harvards
TX was No. 22 (Army Cooperation) Squadron, Vincents and Harvards
SG was No. 42 (Communications) Squadron including Harvards
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Post by Mustang51 on Jun 4, 2019 8:34:06 GMT 12
Thinking I'll do mine when I get it as a machine from No.8 (GR) Sqn.........
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Post by johnnyfalcon on Jun 4, 2019 13:59:50 GMT 12
Thinking I'll do mine when I get it as a machine from No.8 (GR) Sqn......... Harvard or Vincent Ando? |
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Post by davidd on Jun 4, 2019 14:39:21 GMT 12
The unit which used HQ as an identification code after 14 Squadron gave it up was the Gunnery Training School (not Fighter Gunnery School) at Ohakea from about February 1944, code used mostly on Hudsons, and a few P-40s (mostly very elderly P-40Es) plus at least one all-yellow Harvard.
I am pretty certain that the code group JZ was later allocated to the Fighter Gunnery School at Gisborne, although photos of it are pretty scarce. There is a good one of a Harvard in natural metal with this code in Darby's book, and pretty certain it was also used on P-40s, and after about October 1944, on Corsairs too. However it is very hard to find these other aircraft wearing the JZ code.
So far as I know, only other squadron to use the XO code after 16 Sqdn was No. 18 Squadron, still at Woodbourne with aircraft left behind by 16 Sqdn (P-40Es and a few Harvards, plus they also got a P-40M), and I believe the practice died out thereafter. In June 1943, No. 16 Squadron's technical staff was split off as No. 3 FMU (later renamed 3 SU) and remained in NZ to service aircraft for a succession of returning squadrons until it moved to Ardmore about Dec 43/Jan 1944.
The code FE was also used on the odd Vincent drogue tower at Ohakea, and it is possible that OD was also used by a 4 OTU Vincent at Ardmore (and/or Ohakea), but I have never seen any evidence of the latter.
So far as the PA code goes, would agree with the Vincents/Vildebeests, but personally have never seen photo of a Harvard with that code, including any with 30 Sqdn at Gisborne. However code later taken up from about July 1944 by No. 5 Sqdn (PB2B-1 Catalinas) at Lauthala Bay (Fiji).
Code groups RK, UY and ZG were all taken up by Servicing Squadrons of the Ardmore Maintenance Wing by September 1944 (possibly a month or two earlier), but cannot recall which group allocated was allocated to which SS. The SS's incidentally were formerly 3, 5 and 26 SU's. I think they are all listed in Charles Darby's book "The First Decade", right at the end. Some great publicity photos of Corsairs were taken around Auckland in late September 1944 (Air Force Week), and all these codes can be seen "in formation", although they seem to be in "mixed" formations, regardless of the codes.
I have never seen a Harvard marked with the TX code of 22 AC Squadron, although it is theoretically possible they were. The same goes for the ZG code allocated to 20 AC Squadron. It would be great if photos of such Harvards did turn up.
Code SG I have seen on two separate Dominies and a Rearwin, but not on a Harvard (although last type could have used it). Also I do not think this group allocated to 42 Squadron, in fact this code group is probably the most elusive of all those allocated to RNZAF in WW2 (and yes, NZ asked the RAF for these codes, although it would have been just as simple to make up their own, so long as they weren't operated with another air force outside NZ). Although it seems too obvious, I came to conclusion that SG may well have been allocated to Southern Group HQ, Communications Flight, Wigram (which existed as a distinct unit, along with its Northern Group counterpart, between about January and October 1944). There was also at least one Oxford seen at Wigram which wore this code, but of course Oxfords were always scooting around the country in WW2.
No mention of the rarely seen KJ (11 SU, Ohakea) and OP (14 SU, Whenuapai) codes as used on PV-1 Venturas (and I think some B-34s) during 1944, although some of these aircraft were still wearing them when they arrived at Rukuhia at the end of the war.
A subject that interests quite a few, but good information on these codes is very scarce. Hope I don't put anybody crook. Whenever I state (above) that I have "seen" such and such a code on an aircraft, I am talking about photographs - I wasn't born till 6 years AFTER WW2.
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Post by Mustang51 on Jun 4, 2019 15:27:31 GMT 12
Thinking either however a Vincent would suit me just fine as a gentleman's conveyance......just see myself stooging about - albeit slowly - in that bloody great thing around Wairarapa or Otago.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jun 4, 2019 16:11:17 GMT 12
The unit which used HQ as an identification code after 14 Squadron gave it up was the Gunnery Training School (not Fighter Gunnery School) Oh yes, quite correct, I was making the list from memory and did not think too hard about that bit, sorry. Ooh that's interesting. Also after No. 15 Squadron moved to Tonga, then to Santo and Guadalcanal, and in the meantime No. 17 Squadron had formed and took over their JZ- aircraft and moved to Seagrove, No. 15 Squadron returned to Whenuapai, stationed there in August 1943 before their next tour. I wonder did they use JZ- again then? Or no codes? No. 18 (Fighter) Squadron is one unit I have not yet looked too deeply into but yes they formed in June 1943 just as No. 16 (F) Squadron went to the Pacific so they did move into Fairhall and take over the XO-coded aeroplanes. They were there only till Sept 1943, when they went north and No. 14 Squadron arrived. That squadron brought some new aircraft down from Hobsonville but they retained some of the P-40's that had been flown by No. 18 Squadron and a few had been there right back when No. 16 Squadron was still there. At least three XO-coded Harvards were still there when No. 14 Squadron was using them too, but the thing is we don't know if the XO codes were still on them or if No. 3 FMU removed the codes. Yes, I made an error there. I just looked at the photo i was thinking of and not only was it from the period of 30 Squadron as there's an Avenger in the shot, but the Harvards have single letters on them, no PA codes. So sorry about that Ando, no PA Harvard for you. Aren't they listed in the back of your book? I have not checked just yet but I thought they were. Did the Harvards at Ardmore at that time belong to the same units and thus also wear the same codes as the Corsairs? True, I have not seen Harvards with those codes either. And photos of anything from 22 AC Squadron seem to be pretty damned rare. I hope an album or two show up someday with more evidence. Hmm, that is interesting! I was only listing units that used Harvards, although did these units have Harvard hacks? They usually had Oxfords for their hacks on the bomber units. Thanks for the corrections and input David, it's all good stuff. |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jun 4, 2019 16:12:46 GMT 12
Thinking either however a Vincent would suit me just fine as a gentleman's conveyance......just see myself stooging about - albeit slowly - in that bloody great thing around Wairarapa or Otago. It would make the perfect warbird in my opinion. And No. 8 Squadron have a great history too. Do it. |
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mgr
Leading Aircraftman
Posts: 8
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Post by mgr on Jun 5, 2019 6:02:58 GMT 12
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Post by planecrazy on Jun 10, 2019 22:33:06 GMT 12
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Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 8, 2019 14:49:07 GMT 12
For anyone interested in the accident with the RNZAF Historic Flight's Harvard, and the hugely skilful save of the aircraft and himself and passenger that Sqn Ldr Mike Williams made in putting it down safely with the wheels up, have a read of the article in thise recent issue of Air Force News magazine, pages 14-16. airforce.mil.nz/downloads/pdf/airforce-news/afn215.pdf |
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Post by agile on Sept 13, 2019 9:31:56 GMT 12
Can anyone refer me (by PM if necessary) to a luminary on the subject of Harvard instruments? Trying to help out with a project for someone who did us a solid recently.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2020 12:36:36 GMT 12
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2020 13:51:49 GMT 12
Anyone have any ideas where NZ1069 is these days? Goodall's latest info is that she went to Eddie Billman in Auckland in 1995...and I can't find anything more recent. Also, Anyone know the current whereabouts of NZ1100? |
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Post by hrvd1068 on Sept 7, 2020 12:40:15 GMT 12
Anyone have any ideas where NZ1069 is these days? Goodall's latest info is that she went to Eddie Billman in Auckland in 1995...and I can't find anything more recent. Also, Anyone know the current whereabouts of NZ1100? NZ1100 is at ardmore in the nz warbirds hangar.i know this because i put it there |
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Post by ngirl5 on Nov 12, 2020 13:39:09 GMT 12
Hi everyone, Updating about beautiful Harvard 66, NZ1066 ZK-ENE <3 Apologies if this has already been posted elsewhere, I've done a couple of searches but nothing came up. 31st July 2020 www.gisborneherald.co.nz/local-news/20200731/gisborne-on-aviation-tours-nzs-flight-path/The Gisborne Aviation Preservation Society has a new part time resident. Several Gisborne and Tauranga enthusiasts have jointly bought a Harvard aircraft. “I flew Harvard 66 down here from Tauranga on Monday,” Pilot and GAPS member Roger van der Zanden said. “It will be based here and in Tauranga on a share basis and we look forward to getting local people up in the aircraft. “We are looking for more investors in the Harvard. The more we get, the more time we can have it at our museum. “We are working with Warbirds New Zealand to undertake adventure aviation rides in the Harvard, Tiger Moth and Auster as a museum fundraising activity.” Harvard 66, a former Royal New Zealand Air Force trainer done up in US navy colours, was put on the market last year. “It's awesome to have the aircraft available to GAPS and the community of Gisborne.” Harvard 66, from Aviation News May 2020 www.aviationnews.co.nz/uploads/Products/product_253/001A_AVNEWS_0520.pdfNicholas McIndoe Harvard NZ1066, an honorary naval aircraft only, is the author’s favourite Harvard. Painted in a spurious US Navy scheme, it was the first New Zealand Warbirds Association’s Harvard - an honour usually but inaccurately credited to NZ1092 (ZK-WAR). Although not normally associated with naval aviation, such was the Harvard’s versatility that 40 initially entered USN service in 1936 as the NJ-1 (N = trainer; J = North American; 1 = the navy’s first trainer built by North American). During WWII it became the SNJ (S = scout or advanced trainer). The RNZAF operated 202 Harvards between 1941 and 1977, and NZ1066 was brought on charge in December 1943. It served with 1 TAF Squadron between 27 September 1955 and 6 December 1956 before being stored at Wigram in 1962 until it took part in the final Harvard flypast over Christchurch on 24 June 1977. The type has always been the backbone of the New Zealand Warbirds movement and on 20 June 1978 Derek Williams became this country’s first civilian Harvard owner when NZ1091 (ZK-ENC) arrived at Tauranga. He still owns and flies it. Next, NZ1066 (now ZK-ENE), left Tauranga to become the first Ardmore-based, civilian-owned Harvard, when it was purchased by Paul Leuch - ironically not a Warbirds member. Ernie Thompson had already been taken for circuits in NZ1066 by Trevor Bland and soon became the Harvard’s next owner, purchasing it from Paul for $13,000. “I became the first Warbirds member to have a Harvard at Ardmore,” he says. “On 23 December 1978 I did 50m in Harvard ’75 with Bryan Lockie who had taught me aerobatics in the Chipmunk. I did my type rating in ’66 with Trevor Bland on 27 December - total time on type, 3hr 10min.” Five months later Ernie flew ’66 to Mercer to rendezvous with Trevor and Stan Smith in Harvard ’92, and escorted them to Ardmore. He had some interesting times in ’66, not least of which was leading the first Warbirds Harvard Formation Aerobatics Team, precursor to the Roaring Forties, with the likes of Trevor Bland, John Denton and Ross Ewing off his wingtips. “The first display was Easter 1979 at Te Kowhai, just me and Phil Hewett [in NZ1075]. The late Max Clear was none too pleased with these ‘noisy beasts’ invading his tranquil microlight haven!” By November 1979 the display had become a series of formation loops, low passes, line-astern rolls, chandelles and a low-level buzz and break to finish the routine. Ernie also recalls making a precautionary landing in a paddock near Rotowaro, due to weather. A week later the farmer pulled the fence out of the way for him and Bryan Lockie to take off. “That was nice of him.” By August 1984 NZ1066 had transferred to the [Robbie] Booth/Porter/Rolfe Syndicate, and Ernie flew his last display at Paraparaumu on 4 March 1985. NZ1066 was subsequently clipped by NZ1025 over Ardmore 0n 25 February 1990 during a Roaring Forties practice session, a mid-air collision that tragically claimed the life of John Greenstreet flying ’25. It has also had several unfortunate landing incidents. In 1991 the Harvard emerged from an overhaul in the fictitious USN markings seen in the accompanying photographs, as the owners wanted something a bit different from the usual RNZAF schemes. It later joined a Wanaka syndicate, followed by Brian Hall of Christchurch and is now with Classic Flyers at Tauranga. CEO Andrew Gormlie takes up the story: “We are really pleased to have purchased this aircraft. Ownership is under Harvard 66 Ltd, administered by Classic Flyers but operated jointly between us and the Gisborne Aviation Preservation Society (GAPS). “Brian Hall has kept ’66 in immaculate condition which is to his credit and to our fortune as the new owners. This aeroplane makes a great addition to our Yak-52, Stearman, CT-4 and Airtourer. The intention is to assist interested central - North Island pilots to buy a share and obtain a type rating in an aircraft that is widely considered a delight to fly.” Andrew says they also have the option of using the Stearman for introductory hours prior to stepping up to the Harvard if a pilot wishes. Shares will also be available to those who want to help with operating costs and come along as a passenger, but not actually fly the Harvard themselves. Harvard 66 Ltd: opencorporates.com/companies/nz/7697777 |
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Post by planewriting on Nov 12, 2020 15:23:56 GMT 12
Anyone have any ideas where NZ1069 is these days? Goodall's latest info is that she went to Eddie Billman in Auckland in 1995...and I can't find anything more recent. Also, Anyone know the current whereabouts of NZ1100? NZ1100 is at ardmore in the nz warbirds hangar.i know this because i put it there So who owns it now and what plans are there for its future? |
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