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Post by aeromuzz on Feb 1, 2013 7:34:27 GMT 12
I don't think it's an "Auckland thing". If you look back at the success of the Mossie launch, I would say it's more likely a location and attraction issue that kept numbers down.
I'll admit that I didn't go and it was mainly for those reasons. There is certainly potential for it to continue and grow if those things are addressed.
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Post by slackie on Feb 1, 2013 15:31:14 GMT 12
Aeromuzz
In my opinion, the only successful part of that show was the Mossie itself (and the Anson, etc). I'd suggest that very little else about that show could be considered "successful"... Traffic plan? No. Available food? No. Toilet facilities? No. Crowd control? No. Unobstructed views? No. And as I stated before, I'd suggest that there would be many families that got caught out by the above failures would've stayed away from the North Shore show for those very reasons. The Mossie is the only flying example in the world, true but... Yves Rossie is the only Jetman in the world, the Pembertons are the only winsuit/aerobatic performance in the world, the Squirrels are widely regarded by their peers as the best wingsuit team in the world, Chuck Berry is the only man crazy enough to jump out of a helicopter using a tent as a parachute, this was the first time dual aerobatic racing has been done... sure none of these people/acts were rebuilt from WWII heros but they were unique and deserved a better turnout. Warbirds are an important part of the airshow scene, but they are NOT vital to a successful show...it's possibly about time Kiwis realised that.
Airshows have been held at North Shore in the past and tribute to the aeroclub there, had there been 20K+ people there each day I'm sure the venue would've coped admirably... had you attended you would have seen the extensive infrastructure in place...plenty of bogs, food, places to sit & watch, big screens & speakers everywhere.
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Post by DragonflyDH90 on Feb 1, 2013 19:20:00 GMT 12
Personally, although I didn't attend, I think the concept is great. It has great potentially and could really do well. Biggest thing I see from an outsiders perspective is that the major draw cards were fairly high altitude and although show admirably well via the onboards cameras, chase ships etc, it didnt bring the action directly to the spectators.
When the high up integrates better with the down low it will be fantastic.
Its a shame there were late withdrawals.
The cost was the biggest thing that upset folk I think, it would have made a hugely expensive day out for a family (as was evidenced by many of the comments on the Facebook page).
Better to have a lower price and double the numbers than have a higher price get some (and underdeliver which then annoys), if the price is right and there are cancellations or withdrawals folk wont be quite so upset.
Lastly, Peter Newport and Bob Henderson were both involved with the NZ Air Games in 2007 at Wanaka. The event was well run, the camera work was brilliant, the flying was outstanding and all those who competed thoroughly enjoyed themselves (myself included). The numbers were down for that event also by all accounts but everyone who attended appeared to love it and love the format. It was a real family affair with many kids enjoying the wonderful weather and the great happenings. I feel the main reason for the lowish numbers in Wanaka was the location.
More power to anyone who attempts these types of events as I think the general public will really begin to enjoy these events. Get the high and low acts sorted, get the noise, colour, smoke and movement happening, get the cost to Joe Public right and you are on to a great thing.
Just look at RBAR, admittedly most events are free but they have a bigger following and viewing than Formula 1 and draw crowds at some of the venues that are 250,000 and more.
Best of luck and more please.
PS. Chuck Berry is a good mate, one heck of a skydiver and one of the most natural aviators you could ever hope to meet (as well as an aircraft engineer).
He is very calculated and all of his stunts are extremely well thought out with all risks identified and reduced to the absolute minimum, given the nature of what he does. A truely talented individual, and one of the nicest guys around.
Not taking a shot at you Slackie as I know the 'Crazy' comment is a good kinda 'Crazy', just want to let people know a little about Chuck. Glad you had the chance to meet him.
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Post by aeromuzz on Feb 1, 2013 22:38:05 GMT 12
Aeromuzz In my opinion, the only successful part of that show was the Mossie itself (and the Anson, etc). I'd suggest that very little else about that show could be considered "successful"... Traffic plan? No. Available food? No. Toilet facilities? No. Crowd control? No. Unobstructed views? No. And as I stated before, I'd suggest that there would be many families that got caught out by the above failures would've stayed away from the North Shore show for those very reasons. The Mossie is the only flying example in the world, true but.... I wasn't suggested that everything in the Mossie show was successful because I agree that aspects of it were a shambles. BUT they had star attractions that average Joe Public wanted to see so they came.....in unexpectedly large numbers which I would suggest makes it successful. I also wasn't suggesting that these acts aren't good, I'm sure that they are very good and that a lot of people loved seeing them. You are probably right in saying they probably deserved a better turnout though. But, they weren't enough of a drawcard for me to get off my butt. I don't agree with this. Like it or not, the warbirds bring in the numbers, especially average Joe Public. I'm not even going anywhere near that last comment, that sounds a lot like something an ex-PM might have said....... I have no problem with North Shore, it's good facility. I can't comment on the infrastructure in place on the day as I wasn't there. North Shore's main problem is that the majority of average Joe Public probably don't know it exists, let alone where it actually is. If the average Joe Public's from south of the bridge found out that it was at Dairy Flat, they are likely to have said that's too far to go. Personally, if the show had been at Ardmore, I might have given a bit more consideration to going as it's a lot easier for me to get there. I wasn't trying "bag" the show as I think you may have thought I was. I was suggesting that the attractions, as good as they are, weren't enough for to get average Joe Public through the gate. A few different support acts may have made a difference (again, I'm not trying bag anyone, but getting the balance in acts right can make a difference). As I said earlier, there is certainly potential for it to continue and grow. |
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Post by scrooge on Feb 3, 2013 20:41:08 GMT 12
Wifey notes that people she talked to said 'North Shore- that's Whenuapai isn't it?' There's a lesson in there somewhere.
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Post by mumbles on Feb 3, 2013 21:40:50 GMT 12
Aeromuzz In my opinion, the only successful part of that show was the Mossie itself (and the Anson, etc). I'd suggest that very little else about that show could be considered "successful"... Traffic plan? No. Available food? No. Toilet facilities? No. Crowd control? No. Unobstructed views? No. And as I stated before, I'd suggest that there would be many families that got caught out by the above failures would've stayed away from the North Shore show for those very reasons. The impression I got as a first time visitor to Ardmore was that the amount of interest was simply unanticipated and they just got overwhelmed by the numbers. Granted novice air-show goers would not appreciate that, but I would think in terms of "issues" both the Mosquito show and the the 75th at Ohakea were anomalies rather than the norm, the latter certainly so. |
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Post by Peter Lewis on Feb 3, 2013 21:46:54 GMT 12
As one who was there - as a member of the public - I can say:
- the shuttle bus service worked extremely well. Full marks on that one. I had my doubts prior, but became a convert to the concept.
- the facilities in terms of food/toilets/visual aids were top class
- the layout of the show was well thought out, and the staff were polite and knowledgeable.
But:
- would say it was a high cost set up. Most if not all the staff that I saw were paid professionals (including gate staff, marshalls and security). That must have made quite a hole in the budget.
- some of the commentary made assumptions. When they talked of Chuck Berry, I was expecting an 86 year old negro guy to appear singing 'Maybellene". Never heard of the jumper before.
- as has been said by the aircraftheads, minimal attractions for the enthusiasts.
My thoughts are that it was intended to be a 'show' in the sense of an audiovisual attraction for the general public. As such, it had to compete with other public attractions that were on over that long weekend eg yacht racing on the harbour.
Personally, I don't think that Auckland has a large enough population to support this style of high-cost show. Think of the number of large-scale stage shows and music events that come no closer to us that Sydney or Melbourne, because there are simply not enough bums to put on seats here.
Finally, don't forget that Whenuapai is a military establishment, and as such would be a difficult place to host what is basically a for-profit commercial event.
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Post by mumbles on Feb 3, 2013 22:02:40 GMT 12
Finally, don't forget that Whenuapai is a military establishment, and as such would be a difficult place to host what is basically a for-profit commercial event. Plus anything there is likely to have costs at least partly government subsidised. Comparing ticket costs of an RNZAF open day to a commercial airshow just isn't valid. |
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Post by Peter Lewis on Feb 5, 2013 7:13:10 GMT 12
In the public notices today's Herald (page 30):
'Airshow Systems Ltd.
Notice of Appointment of Liquidators and Notice to Creditors to prove Debts or Claims
Notice is hereby given that in accordance with section 24 of the Companies Act 1993 the shareholders of the above named company, on the 4th February 2013 at 10.00 am appointed Paul Graham Sargison, Chartered Accountant, and Simon Dalton, Chartered Accountant, both of Auckland, as Liquidators.'
So I guess that's the end.
A lot of people will not get paid.
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Post by slackie on Feb 5, 2013 7:47:19 GMT 12
Bugger!
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Post by tailstrike on Feb 5, 2013 8:25:23 GMT 12
That's a shame. A lot of (unpaid) people put a lot of time and effort into doing that show.
I sure hope the aero club doesn't lose out.
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Post by wingnut on Feb 5, 2013 19:04:56 GMT 12
Never mind the Aero Club, what about all the other contributors. Traffic management, vendors, display aircraft, the bus company, t shirt suppliers, aircraft tech support, all of whom will be feeling the pinch.
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rhyno
Flight Lieutenant
Posts: 90
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Post by rhyno on Feb 6, 2013 10:24:35 GMT 12
As someone who has been on the receiving of a large unpaid bill through no fault of my own, you cant help but feel sorry for the people left out of pocket. In my case the person who owed me my money went into liquidation, and the NEXT DAY started up again under another name and hid behind it. The only people who's dept carries over are the Tax man, ACC and any other government departments. All the rest of us are left to go hungry... literally!
Rant off.
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Post by Mustang51 on Feb 6, 2013 11:24:35 GMT 12
Pity about the liquidation as it shall put a lot of people off airshow participation - pilots, vendors and the like !. I am unaware of that particular show's organisation FACTS but I know as mentioned by rhyno that many people spend their lives doing this sort of thing throughout many spheres of interest where they just 'bail out' and start again next day with not a worry in the world. Building industry is rife with it. That may not be the case here and I am not suggesting it for a second but it does leave a sour taste in the mouth for people who may fall foul of the practice.
Ref the Ardmore Mossie show, the organisers Pete and his sidekick Niqui were overwhelmed with interest. It was NEVER anticipated that so many would be attending and everyone was caught off guard - police, vendors, everyone. When the vedors get it so wrong that they all run out of food and drinks it is indicative that everyone did not anticipate the huge interest. Some people are known to have just walked away from the entry points and people flooded in. I am told that the motorway was also totally jammed and some took nearly two hours to travel from Auckland. The area opposite the public area - on the NZ Warbirds side - was supposed to be closed off to any public but from where I was we could see many many hundreds of people sitting and filling hangars where no-one was supposed to be due to the crowd lines etc. I would say with a great deal of certainty that the next Ardmore event shall take all that onboard.................. but then there may not be the Mossie to attract the crowds.
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Post by Skyplonk on Feb 6, 2013 11:31:44 GMT 12
I have been reading the old deleted thread and have sat here and bit my tongue with this thread for a while but want to put in my 2 cents worth.
This is my opinion. I am don't know the organizers and hats of for giving it a go but here is candid feedback from a customer (and private pilot).
From me, my family and my friends point of view, no one went (not a single person I knew.. apart from me for one day) because of the following:
- Cost. $55 a day for what? The lineup was lite. Yes, I understand people/planes pulled out. But from day one it had no substance. I am not saying what/who was there was no good, I am saying overall the offer was lite. The offer was not compelling enough to hand over the cash.
- Venue. Sorry, regardless of what people say NorthShore was a huge limiting factor for what aircraft could attend a "international" airshow. People (not aviation geeks) want to be able to see, touch, walk on and get photos with planes! When it was known Ardmore was not a factor the plug should have been pulled.
- Aircraft. It was marketed as a "International" Airshow not a Aviation Sports event. Where were all the aircraft?? (in part, see above point).
- Duration. What was there to do over the 3 days? Talk about repetition. Make the show $30 and do all in one day!
Do I think it was value for money? No.
Am I glad I backed out of buying a multiday pass? Yes.
And judging by the amount of negative feedback that was very very quickly deleted of their facebook page I would say there is a lot of unhappy punters.
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Post by ErrolC on Feb 6, 2013 12:28:51 GMT 12
... I would say with a great deal of certainty that the next Ardmore event shall take all that onboard.................. but then there may not be the Mossie to attract the crowds. Over the last couple of years especially NZ Warbirds have taken on board experience and feedback relating to their regular thrice-yearly Open Days at Ardmore. This now run well, with good facilities for the attendance - which is about 2,000 on-site I understand? There are occasional larger events at Ardmore, notably the Ardmore Showdown, which is mainly a motorsport event with some air displays. I'm not sure of numbers at last year's event, but I would think more than 10,000? I believe that it has been some years since an event with the numbers that attempted to attend the Mossie show was at Ardmore. It would be interesting to know how many people went/go to Tauranga Airshow 2012/14 from Auckland, either as a long-weekend trip, or part of a longer visit to the Bay of Plenty. |
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Post by Peter Lewis on Feb 6, 2013 17:35:57 GMT 12
The only people who's dedt carries over are the Tax man, ACC and any other government departments. And the Liquidators, of course, who do very very nicely. How does $400 an hour grab you? |
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Post by JDK on Feb 6, 2013 18:12:07 GMT 12
I think it's just worth saying that airshows are an incredibly risky venture financially - intentional fraud isn't unknown (I can think of a couple of cases, back in the 1980s, as well as one most New Zealanders are thinking of!) but even the best teams have been caught out and gone bust as well.
The biggest risk is weather, by far, and even if you get everything else right (very, very, hard to do) can turn a potentially profitable event to a massive loss.
Conversely being caught out by the crowd size can - as was seen at the Ardmore Mosquito launch - mean that the gates 'collapse' and revenue missed; thankfully that didn't cause a financial crash for those involved there.
Those are just two of the major risks, however. Loading the costs with roles filled with paid staff rather than volunteers is another cost-risk, but may well have been part of an effort to make the show appear more glossy and professional.
From what I've read, it looks like the NZIAS team were trying to pull together a more modern techno-entertainment than a traditional airshow, similar to the Red Bull air-racing and (car) Formula 1, and in the mode of TV gearhead shows. It's important to try an evaluate the intent as well as what eventuated, if you want to make a fair judgement for future lessons.
I wouldn't cross the road for that show personally, let alone the Tasman; however it is a pity it wasn't a success with a bigger crowd as we need the public to be aware that aviation can be fun and exciting and not generally dangerous and inevitably lethal - which is, sadly, what most people think of flying.
Air event failures affect us all in the aviation community; it's better we chalk up successes as part of our desperately important public outreach.
Regards,
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Post by corsair67 on Feb 6, 2013 21:26:48 GMT 12
Sad news.  |
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Post by TS on Feb 6, 2013 21:48:54 GMT 12
That's a shame. A lot of (unpaid) people put a lot of time and effort into doing that show. I sure hope the aero club doesn't lose out. I for one hope that they do not miss out. As it could be damaging to there image all this bad publicity. As it is a fantastic club with great people.  |
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