Cobber Kain's Gladiator

[steveh]

The recent release Airfix Gladiator has markings for the Shuttleworth Collection Gladiator which is marked as the one that Cobber Kain flew prewar with 73 sqn, K7985. Richard Stowers book on Cobber Kain has several photos in it which purport to be Kain flying K7965. Any ideas as to which is correct. I'd lean toward the Shuttleworth collection getting their facts right but wondered if there has been any discussion on this. The search function is not being cooperative today. Sorry if this is in the wrong place Dave, I saw it as historical rather than modelling question.
Steve.

[mumbles]

Kind of related, but I'd be interested of any images of K7911 as well. That was the aircraft Roald Dahl crash landed in the egyptian desert, detailed in his autbiography Going Solo, and fictionalised in his short story "Piece of Cake".

Didn't know the Shuttleworth Gladiator had a Kain connection.

[Dave Homewood]

According to his logbook, Edgar Kain flew the following Gladiators in June 1938 with No. 73 Squadron:

K6145
K7955
K7965
K6145
K7957

Unfortunately I don't have any details prior to that from his logbook, the following month the squadron converted to Hurricanes.

However Dereck "Bill" Kain, who was also a kiwi and was Cobber's Flight Commander in No. 73 Sqyadron, flew the following Gladiators on the squadron from June 1937 to June 1938:
K7960
K7954
K7962
K7952 (this seems to be Bill's personal aircraft, he flew it many times)
K7957
K7961
K7863
K7958
K7956
K7984
K8023
K7985
K6151
K6145
K7955

All of these Bill flew at least once and most of them on numerous occasions. So K7985 was certainly on the squadron through March and April 1938. K7965 does not come up in Bill's logbook but it was certainly on the squadron too as it's in Cobber's logbook. So as you can see both those aircraft were on the squadron and as you can see from both logbooks that the pilots flew pretty much all the aircraft on the squadron. Cobber probably did fly K7985 too, but whether or not it was his personal aircraft or K7965 was, would require deeper research. Richard has done that, with all of Cobber's personal papers and lots more research for his book, so I am sure he probably kows what he is talking about. Richard is a meticulous researcher.

[Dave Homewood]

Sam, Roald Dahl talked a little about his RAF career and mentioned that crash in his Desert Island Discs interview here:
www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/features/desert-island-discs/castaway/838ad38c#p009mwxx

[steveh]

Thanks for that info Dave, by the look of what you've got there, Cobber may well have flown K7985, even though its 7965 that shows in the book. Presumably the Shuttleworth collection &/or Airfix had some basis for their choice of 7985 as Cobbers mount. Is Richard Stowers a Kiwi or Brit, I'd be interested to hear his take on this.
Steve.

[Dave Homewood]

Richard's a kiwi and lives in Hamilton, I see him often as he's a personal friend and is on the Armistice in Cambridge committee with me. His parents lived here in Cambridge, his late Dad Bob was a Wellington pilot in North Africa, and is on my website. He's also a member on this forum but visits infrequently I think.

[steveh]

Thanks Dave, I might see if I can find an address for him & drop him a note.
Steve.

[Dave Homewood]

I have already emailed Richard to bring this to his attention.

[Dave Homewood]

I just had a call from Richard Stowers following my email, who said that the number K7965 is written on the back of both photos in Eddie Kain's own handwriting, and also that both K7965 and K7985 appear in Eddie's logbook. So he flew both.

[Dave Homewood]

Here's a follow up email from Richard Stowers himself.
"Cobber Kain flew both K 7965 and K 7985 aircraft on numerous occasions. Here are the total flights for each aircraft: Gladiator 7965 on 3 January 1938; 16, 25 May; 10, 23 June. Gladiator 7985 on 9, 13, December 1937; 11, 13, 14, 18, 21 January 1938; 1 March; 5, 27 May; 13, 17 June. On some days there are multiple flights in the same aircraft. The captions for photos in “Cobber Kain” (pages 28, 32 and 34) of K 7965 are correct as they are written on the back in Cobber’s own hand. It seems very likely the photos were taken during the same flight. Also, the Corgi model of Hurricane Paddy III is incorrect as it has a straight two-bladed fixed prop, when it should have a three-bladed variable-pitch prop. Thank you. Richard"

[Dave Homewood]

Intrerestingly in Cobbers logbook the aircraft he was killed in was coded B, not P (Paddy III) as the legend states, and in fact he flew two aircraft coded P that were both destroyed some time before his death, the first he baled out of and it destroyed on the 26th of March 1940, the second was written off on 11 May 1940.

How Paddy III got connected to him I don't know, as there are no further 'P's in his logbook after the second one was destroyed. I don't think he ever flew Paddy III, unless Paddy III was coded as 'B'?

He did fly K a number of times.

[steveh]

Thanks so much for all that information Dave & please pass my thanks on to Richard as well. I think his book is a real beaut, & for me not only tells Cobber Kain's story so well but also casts a light on a lesser known part of the air war, that thru the phoney war & up to & including the blitzkreig. Much appreciated. I'll make up the new Airfix Gladiator as K7985 with a clear conscience but will omit the spinner cap as they seemed to be in 73 sqn.
Steve.

[mumbles]

Jun 8, 2013 20:36:42 GMT 12 Dave Homewood said:

Sam, Roald Dahl talked a little about his RAF career and mentioned that crash in his Desert Island Discs interview here:
www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/features/desert-island-discs/castaway/838ad38c#p009mwxx

Thanks Dave, that was a good listen

[fb6]

Awesome to hear one that he flew still exists!

-Would just like to say that when in reading about him years ago, RAF 73 & 1 Sqns story of the Battle of France was most riveting. I read about it in W/C Paul Richey's book "Fighter Pilot."
Cobber & squadron-mate 'Fanny' Orton apparently shot down 35 aircraft between them during the battle. The Fairey Battle & Blenheim bomber crews got a real mauling too, I recall...

Being a native of Wanganui, there is a street in nearby Marton township that's named after him...

Cheers