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Post by skyhawkdon on Jan 26, 2014 7:28:07 GMT 12
I understand Safe Air will be doing all the maintenance (OLM/ILM & DLM), including the ejection seats (sorry Gunnies but you won't be getting bang-seats back in your training syllabus). Safe Air have been quietly tapping people on the shoulder around Ohakea for the last few months in anticipation. It will be good for Safe Air and the NZ aviation industry. As has been observed by others, this project has had to come together very quickly due to the issues with the CT-4Es. While they might be weapon capable don't expect to see them doing that role for a while (they will need all the airframes going flat out just to clear the backlog of pilots in training).
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Post by skyhawkdon on Jan 26, 2014 7:42:34 GMT 12
The second part was that 14 Sqn is to be reformed to fly them. If true, I don't think that flying a small number of turbo prop pilot trainers is suitable for the reformation of one of the premier RNZAF fighter squadrons. At least it will be a Squadron with aircraft Barnsey. A few years back they wanted to reactivate 75 Sqn as a ground support unit! It was only through strong opposition from the 75 Sqn Association that this was stopped. Personally I think having 14 Sqn back (with all of it's proud history and traditions) will be great for the RNZAF. It is a subtle move and undoes some of the damage caused by Helen Clark. Would be better for the RNZAF if the aircraft were maintained by uniformed personnel but the reality is the RNZAF doesn't have the personnel and civies can do it cheaper.
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Post by saratoga on Jan 26, 2014 8:59:38 GMT 12
At least they toned down those red stripes!
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Post by baronbeeza on Jan 26, 2014 9:55:35 GMT 12
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Post by sqwark2k on Jan 27, 2014 12:11:08 GMT 12
NZ HERALD WEBSITE
WELLINGTON, New Zealand (AP) New Zealand has signed a $127 million contract with Wichita, Kan.-based Beechcraft Corp. for military pilot training.
Defense Minister Jonathan Coleman said Monday that the contract includes 11 Beechcraft T-6C turboprop planes as well as ground simulators and training systems that will be implemented in classrooms and on computers.
Trainee pilots will begin using the new system in 2016.
New Zealand has a defense force of about 14,000. It stationed a small number of troops in Afghanistan for a decade before withdrawing them last year.
U.S. Embassy Charg d'Affaires Colin Crosby says the announcement is great news for New Zealand's Air Force and good news for U.S. business.
New Zealand military pilots are currently trained on systems provided by Pacific Aerospace and Beechcraft that the government considers outdated.
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Post by ErrolC on Jan 27, 2014 12:19:26 GMT 12
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Post by hamfists on Jan 27, 2014 13:54:47 GMT 12
Holy crap! That's not a good price from a company that has been struggling!! (The textron deal notwithstanding..some of their product lines have been problematic lately-mustang-skycatcher..)
$127 mil..the listed price per frame is at absolute most $8 mil..that's $88 mil base price..hopefully they get a real sweet sim and spares package with that and ongoing support because otherwise they saw us coming!!
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Post by saratoga on Jan 27, 2014 16:33:27 GMT 12
After digging a bit deeper i like the choice too. And down the line potentially provides a platform for JTAC/FAC/CAS. So Army and Navy benefit as well. Just a thought... Couldn't we have used the Macchis in part for this training,and saved some of the $154mill.?
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Post by exkiwiforces on Jan 27, 2014 17:45:18 GMT 12
I've been told that Rolls Royce no longer supported the Viper engine, also there was a cost issue somewhere along the line not sure if was to do with the engines or something else and politics.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 27, 2014 18:45:31 GMT 12
Richard Jackson of the NZDF has kindly sent through these photos for us to see the colour scheme selected for the aircraft fleet: And the simulator
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Post by phil82 on Jan 27, 2014 18:51:52 GMT 12
I quite like that colour scheme!
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Post by beagle on Jan 27, 2014 19:48:04 GMT 12
na, sorry, not a fan of the black, yellow for me or maybe red.
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Post by skyhawkdon on Jan 27, 2014 19:55:43 GMT 12
Couldn't we have used the Macchis in part for this training,and saved some of the $154mill.? Yes but we would have had to invest in either new engines or paid RR a lot to keep supporting our version of the Viper. If we had kept flying the Macchis post 2001 they would be due for replacement about now too (a 20 year airframe life for a jet trainer is reasonable service). The price seems very reasonable to me if it includes simulators and spares (compare it to the NH-90s which worked out at about $100M per airframe or LAVs at about $8M per vehicle!). Defence hardware isn't cheap.
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Post by saratoga on Jan 27, 2014 20:16:16 GMT 12
Couldn't we have used the Macchis in part for this training,and saved some of the $154mill.? Yes but we would have had to invest in either new engines or paid RR a lot to keep supporting our version of the Viper. If we had kept flying the Macchis post 2001 they would be due for replacement about now too (a 20 year airframe life for a jet trainer is reasonable service). The price seems very reasonable to me if it includes simulators and spares (compare it to the NH-90s which worked out at about $100M per airframe or LAVs at about $8M per vehicle!). Defence hardware isn't cheap. I know that well. I was hinting at having given away the Macchis last year then now paying $154mil to get back something they could have done, not withstanding the engine and other issues. Guess its all water under the bridge...
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Post by Damon on Jan 27, 2014 20:51:48 GMT 12
What a cool colour scheme. And bringing back 14 Squadron ! Really awesome! I personally was hoping for Tucanos or something else. How can I get my hands on a exRNZAF CT-4E ?
Does anyone know what clinched the selection of the AT-6 compared to other options?
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Post by beagle on Jan 27, 2014 21:05:40 GMT 12
So I wonder what the RAAF are saying about this purchase.
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Post by saratoga on Jan 27, 2014 21:18:24 GMT 12
If you can find on the web an article about training tomorrows RNZAF in Pacific wings,july2012. Has some good points about the T-6 that make it very suitable for NZ environment,namely a stronger frame and better corrosion resistance than the PC-9.Those 2 factors alone help to mitigate against the strong wind buffeting(fatigue life) and the salt laden atmosphere(corrosion). I think the ability to deliver the aircraft in a short time frame might have helped and reading other articles on the web, particularly in relation to the US JPATS programme give a good comparison with effectively the only competitor,Tucano.
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Post by camtech on Jan 27, 2014 22:06:21 GMT 12
NZ1401? Reusing old serials are we now?
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Post by hamfists on Jan 27, 2014 23:00:06 GMT 12
Corrosion resistance!!?
Tell that to eagle with their (Raytheon beech) 1900's.
They haven't faired that well..especially the back end
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Post by 11SQNLDR on Jan 28, 2014 2:24:21 GMT 12
Surely this news justifies it's own thread - this one is about the CT4-E's Gook to see klinky again - at least he's flying SOMETHING - a good man with lots of PC-9 experience from his exchange posting to Pearse.
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