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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 23, 2013 13:25:16 GMT 12
Tributes paid to Battle of Britain pilot Norman Brown Mr Brown joined 41 Squadron in October, 1940 Tributes have been paid to a Spitfire pilot who fought in the Battle of Britain, following his death aged 94. Norman Brown was the last known surviving member of 41 Squadron based at Hornchurch, Essex, who heroically defended Britain's skies in 1940. A memorial service was held on Saturday in the Old Parish Church in Peebles where he had lived in retirement. Mr Brown passed away peacefully at Borders General Hospital, near Melrose, on Tuesday. A cremation service is set to follow at a later date. In a tribute his family said: "He was a gentleman in the true sense of the word and never let personal setbacks diminish his wit and sense of honour." Mr Brown joined the RAF Volunteer Reserve in August 1939 as an airman/pilot and was called up the following month. He initially served in Hastings before being transferred to Derby in April 1940. Eventually after converting to spitfires, he moved to 41 Squadron on October 12, 1940. He was one of a flight of Spitfires that overshot Hornchurch in poor visibility on 1 November and went into the London Barrage Balloon area. Mr Brown struck a cable, seriously damaging his aircraft. He made a forced landing on a small piece of open ground in the built-up area of Dagenham. He left the squadron in late February 1941 and left the RAF in April of that year. He spent the remainder of the war working in the timber industry. The father-of-two's entire working career was spent in forestry and he rose to District Commissioner for the West of Scotland with the Forestry Commission. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-25477395
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Post by baz62 on Dec 23, 2013 17:59:11 GMT 12
Thats sad that he was the last survivor of that squadron. There can't be many Battle of Britain veterans left now. As we only had a small number of Kiwis in the battle are we now living in the time of no Kiwi veterans from the early days of WW2, at least from the Air force?
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 23, 2013 19:56:22 GMT 12
There were a large number of kiwis in the Battle of Britain compared with most other countries, only outnumbered by the British themselves and the Polish (and the Germans).
Today there are just two living New Zealanders who served in Fighter Command in the Battle of Britain. Bernard Brown and Keith Lawrence. The latter lives in the UK.
There were of course a good number of kiwis in Bomber Command, Training Command, Coastal Command and other roles at that time too. Not many of them will be around now though either.
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Post by baz62 on Dec 24, 2013 13:10:10 GMT 12
There were a large number of kiwis in the Battle of Britain compared with most other countries, only outnumbered by the British themselves and the Polish (and the Germans). Today there are just two living New Zealanders who served in Fighter Command in the Battle of Britain. Bernard Brown and Keith Lawrence. The latter lives in the UK. There were of course a good number of kiwis in Bomber Command, Training Command, Coastal Command and other roles at that time too. Not many of them will be around now though either. Yes sorry I should have said small as in numerically, as that is certainly a large number compared with other nations. I would have thought there would have been more Free french pilots but I suppose the Polish pilots had more time to get over to the UK, get trained and get stuck in than the French did. Starting with 73 Kiwis at the early stages of the war I wonder how many survived to wars end?. Glad to see we still have 2 left! |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 24, 2013 13:17:41 GMT 12
There were over 600 kiwis flying in the RAF when the war began, plus a few dozen RNZAF there too, and a lot more by the time the Battle of Britain came along.
One pilot I met and interviewed was Dereck "Bill" Kain who joined the RAF in 1934, and was a Flight Commander in the Battle of France with No. 73 Squadron, and was Cobber Kain's boss and mate. He was crook during the Battle of Britain so wasn't operational but he led a few squadrons after the Battle and then went to the desert and Malta and was a Wing Commander. By 1944 he was in charge of RAF Predannack back in England.
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Post by baz62 on Dec 24, 2013 14:38:11 GMT 12
There were over 600 kiwis flying in the RAF when the war began, plus a few dozen RNZAF there too, and a lot more by the time the Battle of Britain came along. Crikey 600! So the 73 would have been operational in Fighter Command then? And the rest scattered through the different roles and commands in the RAF. Very interesting. |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 24, 2013 14:48:44 GMT 12
I'm not sure where you got the number 73 from Baz. I believe there were 135 New Zealanders awarded the Battle of Britain clasp, for operational service in Fighter Command during the battle. There were others contributing to the success of the Battle in Bomber Command, Coastal Command, Training Command and I guess even Transport Command and other roles who did not receive the clasp.
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Post by ErrolC on Dec 24, 2013 15:05:15 GMT 12
A quick Google (well, not that quick, No.73 Sqn had NZers in it...) threw up a couple of refs to 73 NZers in the BoB e.g. cz-raf.hyperlink.cz/BoB/stat.htmlI'm sure that there are a variety of numbers that have been quoted over the years, and you can always start discussions over 'define New Zealander' :-) By the way, I understand that there was a pre-war policy to encourage/send suitable NZers to the RAF direct. Did this policy have a name, and is there an official source for it (Cabinet memo or something)? |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 24, 2013 15:22:56 GMT 12
It was the RAF Short Service Commission Scheme.
The 1981 edition of Kenneth Wynn's book "Clasp of the Few" apparently details 129 New Zealanders who flew in the Battle of Britain in Fighter Command and received the Clasp. I have seen a quote from a 2010 article by Max Lambert which states there were 135 kiwis.
73 may refer simply to RNZAF members?
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Post by baz62 on Dec 24, 2013 16:40:35 GMT 12
It was the RAF Short Service Commission Scheme. The 1981 edition of Kenneth Wynn's book "Clasp of the Few" apparently details 129 New Zealanders who flew in the Battle of Britain in Fighter Command and received the Clasp. I have seen a quote from a 2010 article by Max Lambert which states there were 135 kiwis. 73 may refer simply to RNZAF members? You'd think it was the nationality that would count. So I presume, as you say, the 73 were RNZAF not RAF? Meaning 56 Kiwis were actually RAF. Anyhow makes you proud to be a Kiwi.  EDIT: I see the RAF Roll of Honour has 135 New Zealanders on it. 73 came from another website about the battle. |
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Post by baz62 on Dec 24, 2013 16:47:07 GMT 12
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Post by ErrolC on Dec 25, 2013 6:48:47 GMT 12
It was the RAF Short Service Commission Scheme. The 1981 edition of Kenneth Wynn's book "Clasp of the Few" apparently details 129 New Zealanders who flew in the Battle of Britain in Fighter Command and received the Clasp. I have seen a quote from a 2010 article by Max Lambert which states there were 135 kiwis. 73 may refer simply to RNZAF members? Cheers, that will be a good start for me finding out more. My guess is that 73 is a number that was used at some point by at least one source, and has been repeated since. |
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