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Post by elephantshampoo on Sept 28, 2014 6:56:13 GMT 12
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Post by The Red Baron on Sept 29, 2014 16:06:33 GMT 12
Interesting article,but unlikely they were going to fly the Me163 as by 1945 even the Germans realised the Me163 was not going to work as a viable interceptor and they were retraining pilots to fly the Me262 or He162.Even Me 262 operations were perilous by 1945,the Germans had more pilots than operational aircraft and not many of them were operating in 1945 as the Allies closed Germay down.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 29, 2014 19:18:19 GMT 12
So were these supposedly captured Me163's they were going to fly? I mean, the Italians were on the Allied side by 1944. Where were the Allies going to get them?
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Post by elephantshampoo on Sept 30, 2014 9:16:37 GMT 12
There were 17 pilots in total. The idea was to have them fly in north Italy. Yes Italy was on the allied side, but not all of em apparently. Italian troops captured by the Germans were given a choice to keep fighting with the Germans. About 94,000 Italians accepted and the remaining 710,000 were designated Italian military internees and were transported as slave labor to Germany. Some Italian troops that evaded German capture in the Balkans joined the Yugoslav (about 40,000 soldiers) and Greek Resistance (about 20,000).[60] The same happened in Albania. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_Italy_during_World_War_II |
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Post by elephantshampoo on Sept 30, 2014 9:16:51 GMT 12
Oops, double post.
1945
On the 10th of April Glogner flew to 42,000 feet to intercept a
Mosquito. A chase ensued and fire from the Me 163 set one of the
engines of the Mosquito alight. Both crewmen left the aircraft to land
by parachute while Glogner attempted to land. Landing proved difficult
as the canopy had become covered with frost, but a couple of small
holes were scrapped through the ice to enable Glogner to return to the
airfield.
1944...
It´s actually a bit more complicated with regards to Me-163 kills.
At first, there are only claims. No strict verifications system existed back then.
Second, only a fraction of all AAR exist and we still need to fill the gaps dating to operations in june & jule 1944 as well as to the general timeframe mid oct.1944 to mid march 1945.
For the remaining timeframes I filed down 20 claims of this particular A/C, which I´d like to share with those of You who wnat to cross check them with losses.
number---date------pilot--------target-----notes
#1------05-08-44---I/JG-400------P-51------352nd FG
#2------05-08-44---I/JG-400------P-51------352nd FG
#3------05-08-44---I/JG-400------P-51------352nd FG
#4------16-08-44---H.Ryll--------B-17------returned to Enland, written off
#5------16-08-44---S.Schubert----B-17-----------
#6------24-08-44---H.Bott--------four engined bomber
#7------24-08-44---S.Schubert----four engined bomber
#8------24-08-44---S.Schubert----four engined bomber
#9------24-08-44---Strasznicky---four engined bomber
#10-----11-09-44---K.Schiebeler--B-17------oct.?
#11-----11-09-44---I/JG-400------B-17------acc. to ethell, 7 Me-163 attacked
#12-----11-09-44---I/JG-400------B-17------acc. to ethell, 7 Me-163 attacked
#13-----12-09-44---K.Schiebeler--B-17------oct.?
#14-----07-10-44---I/JG-400------B-17-----------
#15-----07-10-44---I/JG-400------B-17-----------
#16-----16-03-45---R.Glogner-----Mosquito NS 795 of No.544 sq, written off after crash landing near Lille, combat near Leipzig with rocket propelled enemy A/C
#17-----10-04-45---R.Glogner-----Mosquito---e/a crew bailed out
#18-----10-04-45---F.Kelb--------Halifax--downed with SG-500 rockets
#19-----22-04-45---II/JG-400-----Lancaster
#20-------05-45----P.Gerth-------Mosquito---II/JG400, n. Germany
For the duration of 1944, JG 400 lost 6 Me 163s due to enemy action
621 mph... |
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Post by elephantshampoo on Sept 30, 2014 14:33:26 GMT 12
The interesting thing about the 163 is that unlike the 262, it didn't need a 4000 foot concrete runway to operate, same goes for HE 162, 1600 feet takeoff, plus it could operate on tar runway, ( 262 would set fire to a tar runway whereas 162 had jet up on top). The 262 runways were impossible to hide, so it was tactically sensible to make these other advanced machines simply because one could fly them off grass & tar runways which meant they could fly in areas the 262 could not. Fuel situation & Red army advance ended the story anyways, but insofar as tactics & expenditure of labor & materials are concerned, the 163 & HE 162 did make some sense. “The highly experienced fighter pilots could fly and attack in a 45-degree climb. They were quite safe because the turrets on the bombers could not easily follow them. These were the pilots who survived. The Komet's 600 mph (959 km/h ) speed stunned the allied bomber crews who saw it for the first time With cannons or rockets firing the Komet would streak through allied bomber formations Rudy Opitz... “One day, our project officer’s Komet 163 was fueled up and ready to fly when three Me 109s came over the field in a single line formation. I was among 30 pilots watching from the ground. Späte took off and was immediately upon them; we all saw that he easily could have picked them off. They tried to come behind him, but with his extra power and agility, he was soon behind each of them. Everybody was terribly excited to see what you could do with the new plane.” www.plane-crazy.net/links/me163.htmOne of the Italians flew a 109 G as late as April 45, ( after the Komet training). Maresciallo Mario Veronesi surfcity.kund.dalnet.se/italy_veronesi.htmOn 10 April 1945 he took of together with two more pilots from Io Gruppo Caccia Gallarate in three Bf 109Gs. In the Milan-Lake Como area they intercepted four weather reconnaissance P-47s from the 65th FS, 57th FG. In the short engagement that followed, the Americans damaged Maresciallo Veronesi's Bf 109G-14/AS (Werk. Nr. 785990, '1-7') and Sottenente Gallori's Bf 109K-4 (Werk. Nr. 333878, '3-14'). Maresciallo Forlani claimed a P-47 damaged in return. |
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Post by The Red Baron on Oct 1, 2014 9:30:49 GMT 12
After the war the French test flew about half a dozen He 162's over several years,there was a good series of articles on the test flying in FlyPast magazine some years back.The He 162 was terribly underpowered and needed a huge long take off run off a concrete runway to get airborne and took a long distance after take off to reach operating speed.It had very poor manouverability and would only have been any good as a hit and run attack plane,it couldn't dogfight.Sending up scores of poorly trained pilots in these jets would have only provided target practice for Allied fighters.
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Post by elephantshampoo on Oct 2, 2014 11:44:15 GMT 12
Not true, it only needed 1600 feet for takeoff, & unlike 262 could operate off tar runways, not just concrete. takeoff run was to be no more than 500 meters (1,640 feet). www.456fis.org/HEINKEL_HE-162.htmRoyal Navy test pilot Lt. Cdr. Eric Brown found the He-162 to be very stable and was probably the best gun platform of any of the WWII-era jets. The view from the cockpit was excellent, From an aerodynamic & engineering point of view the He-162 is an 100% excellent & sound design with a very good layout. The low weight, high performance engine and small size of the a/c coupled with the perfectly sized wings and aerodynamically clean design meant a very high top speed, climb rate, excellent turn rate and roll rate. The good layout also meant it was a delight to fly, being very agile in all aspects of flight and featuring good control & responsiveness. The only thing to take care of was applying too much rudder, as the aircraft was unusually responsive here and applying to much rudder at high speed could cause a structural failure of the tail. All of the above coupled with a few new advanced features (Ejection seat) made the He-162A-2 a truly excellent fighter aircraft and one of the best designs to see service during the war. Eric Brown called the He-162 a first class fighter aircraft, and often flew it for fun after the war. The French used em for trainers 45 to 48. The French were the ones who used the He-162 as a trainer for two years before recieving the Vampire, and it did beautifully in that role. You have to remember that rookiees were flying the bird, so a single crash over two years is pretty remarkable for any a/c. memorial.flight.free.fr/He162.html |
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Post by elephantshampoo on Oct 2, 2014 12:13:31 GMT 12
& the 1st pilots trainees were FW 190 pilots, not kids. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinkel_He_162February saw deliveries of the He 162 to its first operational unit, I./JG 1 (1st Group of Jagdgeschwader 1 Oesau — "1st Fighter Wing"), which had previously flown the Focke-Wulf Fw 190A. |
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