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Post by justinnt198 on Jul 10, 2015 0:51:28 GMT 12
Hi, I have a photo of my late father H Perkowicz sitting on the wing of Mosquito NT198 SM-U in 305 Polish Bomber Squadron in late September 1944. The aircraft has 12 swastikas on it and picture of Popeye the Sailor Man on the hatch. The first and prior crew for NT198 were Pilot G. G. Suckling NZ 415386 who came from Squadron 21 on 11/04/1944 and was then posted to Squadron 487 on 07/07/1944 together with his navigator J Mehigan 1394509. This data comes from the RAF Operational Record Books. I have identified that the crew made 12 sorties in 305 SQN which explains the swastikas. I am trying to find out whether the Popeye was painted by them or not and the significance of it. ![NT198]() The photo is half way down this page www.pyxis.com.au/Links.htm and the Popeye is near his feet. Sortie-Date ORB-Source Pilot Navigator 12/06/1944 AIR 27-1672-68 G G Suckling J Mehigan 13/06/1944 AIR 27-1672-68 G G Suckling J Mehigan 16/06/1944 AIR 27-1672-68 G G Suckling J Mehigan 17/06/1944 AIR 27-1672-68 G G Suckling J Mehigan 18/06/1944 AIR 27-1672-68 G G Suckling J Mehigan 22/06/1944 AIR 27-1672-68 G G Suckling J Mehigan 24/06/1944 AIR 27-1672-68 G G Suckling J Mehigan 27/06/1944 AIR 27-1672-68 G G Suckling J Mehigan 28/06/1944 AIR 27-1672-68 G G Suckling J Mehigan 03/07/1944 AIR 27-1672-71 G G Suckling J Mehigan 04/07/1944 AIR 27-1672-71 G G Suckling J Mehigan 06/07/1944 AIR 27-1672-71 G G Suckling J Mehigan 07/07/1944 AIR 27-1672-71 M Kita J H Malanowicz 08/07/1944 AIR 27-1672-71 S Zygnerski H Perkowicz Thanks in advance, Justin |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jul 10, 2015 10:29:29 GMT 12
Interesting. Welcome to the forum Justin.
Do you know if the aircraft itself had spent any time with No. 487 (NZ) Squadron? Because for a time the C.O. of the squadron was S/Ldr Fred "Popeye" Lucas, who painted Popeye on all his personal aircraft.
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Post by justinnt198 on Jul 10, 2015 14:17:28 GMT 12
Dave,
Thanks a lot, this will make three of amateur historians us very happy and solves a puzzle we have had for a year. NT198 is listed as passing from 417/305/54OTU/Armee de l'Air. NT198 was delivered under contract in early 1944 and was first delivered to 417 Repair and Salvage Unit which also prepared new aircraft for operations. 417 operated at R.A.F. Station Snailwell, Suffolk. NT198 made its first appearance in 305 SQN as listed above, so the records seem to be in order. It may be possible that the aircraft spent some time elsewhere first. I now have an plausible explanation for the Popeye and the 12 swastikas. If more information comes to hand I'll certainly get back.
Justin
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Post by justinnt198 on Jul 10, 2015 14:22:37 GMT 12
Dave, Do you have an example of S/Ldr Fred "Popeye" Lucas's Popeye art as this would be very interesting to compare to what the photo has. Also - 417 may be typo for 487 - I am getting the aircraft movement records from RAF Museum - will get back! Did some looking myself... Popeye looks familiar.. rnzaf.proboards.com/thread/3322?page=2Also found picture of Dakota NZ3501. Justin |
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Post by errolmartyn on Jul 10, 2015 15:07:33 GMT 12
Dave, Do you have an example of S/Ldr Fred "Popeye" Lucas's Popeye art as this would be very interesting to compare to what the photo has. Also - 417 may be typo for 487 - I am getting the aircraft movement records from RAF Museum - will get back! Justin 417 appears in the relevant volume of Air Britain's RAF serials for NT198 (the work is based on the aircraft movement cards), but given that 417 was a Hurricane/Spitfire unit the probability of a typo seems highly likely. Errol |
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Post by justinnt198 on Jul 10, 2015 16:22:28 GMT 12
Hi Errol, There appear to be several "417"'s there - RAF as per your advice, and I think another Canadian and even USAF. See www.rafcommands.com/archive/03846.php - this agrees with the information supplied by my Polish contact Mieszko: The designation is actually No. 417 Repair & Salvage Unit. The unit was formed at R.A.F. Station Snailwell, Suffolk on the 1st of January, 1944. It fell under control of No. 2 Group, R.A.F. Bomber Command and dealt primarily with Mosquitoes. We had considered the possibility of a typo like this but since a plausible (never sure about anything) explanation is at hand I'd have to run with the RSU version of events and say the records are as stated. I conclude that the air crew used the Popeye on the new aircraft in homage to their C.O. The use of swastikas (or any other symbol) to denote missions or other events is understood to have been a personal choice for the crew - what to use, what side of the aircraft to paint them on etc. As my father did 50 sorties in the plane I wonder what it would look like if they had used the same scheme - the aircraft would have been covered with swastikas. If we can find anything linking Fred Lucas to this aircraft directly that would be a bonus and a surprise. I looked in other threads and saw some pages from his flight book and he has some serial numbers listed, but none match NT198. Possibly if someone has the ORB's for 487 from Jan-June 1944 that would help, but I think it is a long shot. Justin |
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Post by errolmartyn on Jul 10, 2015 19:05:01 GMT 12
Hi Errol, There appear to be several "417"'s there - RAF as per your advice, and I think another Canadian and even USAF. Justin Justin squadron numbers 400-445 were reserved by the RAF for RCAF squadrons, though 444 and 445 were not taken up. Be that as it may, your suggestion of 417 RSU, especially as it was part of 2 Group, seems almost certainly correct for NT198. Errol |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jul 10, 2015 19:28:46 GMT 12
Here are two examples of Wing Commander Popeye Lucas's nose arts, from his No. 75 (NZ) Squadron Wellington, and from one of his C-47 Dakotas when he was commanding No. 40 Squadron RNZAF. These are both from his personal collection, thanks to his family.   I checked his logbook but he only recorded one serial - HJ969 and after that all his No. 487 (NZ) Squadron Mossie flights he only recorded the letter code for. However if you want to get the ORB pages for his time there as C.O., he first flew a Mosquito with the squadron on 9th of February 1944, and his last flight of that tour was on the 12th of July 1944. |
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Post by fwx on Jul 11, 2015 12:15:34 GMT 12
Interesting about the swastikas - I had assumed (based on Bomber Commmand a/c that I have seen) that the convention was marking with bombs for number of op's, and that swastikas were used for enemy a/c claimed as destroyed. That seems to have been how it worked in 75 (NZ) Sqdn anyway.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jul 11, 2015 12:36:07 GMT 12
And most other squadrons too, including the USAAF, Chris.
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Post by justinnt198 on Jul 11, 2015 12:46:53 GMT 12
Hi fwx,
The Polish buffs I have been conversing with did a check on the swastikas and advised that no Mosquito ace in 305 Sqn had 12 kills, so as the number matches the sorties, I figured out it was the best explanation. They thought it could have been V1 kills, but the ORB's only show bombing missions on the V1 supply chain (railways etc) and no aerial interceptions. I tried to find out information on V1 kills but could only find statistics, not actual data about planes or aircrew.
As RAF 305 Sqn operated mainly at night so not sure how 12 night time kills would have been made in 12 sorties.
My father told me of one time they were intercepted at night and just managed to escape, that is on the night of 30-31 Aug 1944 : Attack railways in region of Saarbrucken - Metz - Commercy: Shot up 40 goods wagons and also attacked 2 trains, was attacked by enemy night fighter but evaded. He said they had been flying straight too long and pulled up when they saw the tracers passing just under them. They outran the fighter and did not engage.
There are several intruder missions listed, so maybe they got lucky downing night fighters as they landed. Speculation at best I'd say. I'm going with the one swastika equals one sortie theory for now, but am always open to new information.
Thanks for all the help so far.
Justin
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Post by justinnt198 on Jul 11, 2015 13:26:15 GMT 12
Hi again,
Another line of inquiry could be the original aircrew.
I got these details from AIR 27-1672-63, page 4.
Pilot F/O G. G. Suckling NZ 415386
Navigator F/S J Mehigan 1394509
I tried some Google searches and didn't find anything useful.
As the pilot was NZ maybe you guys have some information?
Justin
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Post by geoff15353 on Aug 27, 2015 17:55:49 GMT 12
Hi, I have a photo of my late father H Perkowicz sitting on the wing of Mosquito NT198 SM-U in 305 Polish Bomber Squadron in late September 1944. The aircraft has 12 swastikas on it and picture of Popeye the Sailor Man on the hatch. The first and prior crew for NT198 were Pilot G. G. Suckling NZ 415386 who came from Squadron 21 on 11/04/1944 and was then posted to Squadron 487 on 07/07/1944 together with his navigator J Mehigan 1394509. This data comes from the RAF Operational Record Books. I have identified that the crew made 12 sorties in 305 SQN which explains the swastikas. I am trying to find out whether the Popeye was painted by them or not and the significance of it. ![NT198]() The photo is half way down this page www.pyxis.com.au/Links.htm and the Popeye is near his feet. Sortie-Date ORB-Source Pilot Navigator 12/06/1944 AIR 27-1672-68 G G Suckling J Mehigan 13/06/1944 AIR 27-1672-68 G G Suckling J Mehigan 16/06/1944 AIR 27-1672-68 G G Suckling J Mehigan 17/06/1944 AIR 27-1672-68 G G Suckling J Mehigan 18/06/1944 AIR 27-1672-68 G G Suckling J Mehigan 22/06/1944 AIR 27-1672-68 G G Suckling J Mehigan 24/06/1944 AIR 27-1672-68 G G Suckling J Mehigan 27/06/1944 AIR 27-1672-68 G G Suckling J Mehigan 28/06/1944 AIR 27-1672-68 G G Suckling J Mehigan 03/07/1944 AIR 27-1672-71 G G Suckling J Mehigan 04/07/1944 AIR 27-1672-71 G G Suckling J Mehigan 06/07/1944 AIR 27-1672-71 G G Suckling J Mehigan 07/07/1944 AIR 27-1672-71 M Kita J H Malanowicz 08/07/1944 AIR 27-1672-71 S Zygnerski H Perkowicz Thanks in advance, Justin |
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Post by geoff15353 on Aug 27, 2015 17:57:46 GMT 12
Justin
My father flew in 305 Squadron 1944-45 (William Green) I wonder if you have any pictures or info - what we have is a little vague.
Thanks
Geoff Green
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Post by justinnt198 on Aug 29, 2015 16:14:32 GMT 12
Hi Geoff,
My father passed away 2008 so no first hand information is available, I have a handfull of photos only which my Polish contacts have been able to provide background information on. My main source is the UK Archives Operational Records Books (ORBS) which I have downloaded for all of 1944. I can share them but but cannot post them on a web site due to copyright. My father flew his required 50 sorties Jul-Dec 1944 and then left to fly Dakotas. If your father was flying in the squadron for over a year then he must have signed up for more tours. I have read of some pilots that did over 150 sorties so must have been there a while.
I looked up the ORBs for December and there are entries, here is one.
5/6th December F.193 (air craft "F" serial 193) - F/S W.R.H. Green (pilot) and F/S F. Nethercott (navigator). Up 22:17 down 23:22. Attack and harass enemy movements along railways, canals and roads in vicinity of Osnabruck - Wessel and Rheine. Aircraft F developed icing and so presumably returned without completing the mission, most flights my father made were 2 hours or more. My father flew that same night in S.371 they definitely crossed paths and must have met! Wow!
I can email you the ORBs so you can more research of you can download them from UK archives (3.3 pounds each, 2 per month that's quite a bit. The references are AIR-27-1672-59 onwards.
Can you send me an email using the notice board other we can arrange something else.
Justin
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Post by justinnt198 on Aug 29, 2015 16:34:35 GMT 12
Hi Geoff,
In the ORB for Nov 1944 Epinoy France the records show W.R.H. Green joining the squadron on 28th "ex 2 G.S.U.". No. 2 Group Support Unit was where my father also came from after training in Canada. 2GSU was where he was posted prior to being transferred to an operational squadron. First record I see for WRH Green is 5/6th Dec (the icing problem), then 6/7th, 7/8th, 11/12th, 23/24th, 24/25th, 25/26th, 27/28th. Weather in December 1944 was terrible which restricted flying and the Battle of the Bulge was underway from mid December. You father may have taken part in that battle as well - the ORBs shows the target area for each night.
From the ORB perspective it seems that all I have for you is December 1944, so if you are going to download all the ORBs relating to your father from the UK National Archives then you may as well do that one as well. I do not have any for 1945.
Justin
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Post by geoff15353 on Feb 23, 2016 17:15:27 GMT 12
Hi Justin
Sorry I didn't see your replies.
Yes - Flight Sergeant William Ronald Hinshaw Green was the man. Unfortunately he passed away a few years ago but not before "opening the hangar doors" a few times as he put it.
He did do his training in Canada as well so I'm sure they would have known each other well.
He lost touch with Buddy (Nethercot) his navigator for some reason but always swore he was the best on the squadron.
Clearing the runway of snow in 1944 was one of his stories and flying between the spires of Copenhagen Cathedral was another he told us about. Not sure if that was true but am fairly certain he flew under one of the bridges in Germany at some stage and got hauled up for it.
And yes he was part of the support group during the battle of the Bulge. He told me that was when they first introduced a big automatic cannon under the nose (he was on 2nd TAF patrolling the channel) it actually slowed the aircraft down when it fired!
I think he only did 40 something missions/sorties but still it amazes me how they survived.
I carry on the tradition by flying paragliders as much as possible - its not as hair-raising as some of the stunts they got up to I'm sure but gets my adrenaline running.
Take care.
Geoff
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Post by Antonio on May 29, 2024 11:30:22 GMT 12
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Post by Antonio on May 29, 2024 11:40:46 GMT 12
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