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Post by skyhawkdon on Dec 15, 2015 14:25:54 GMT 12
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Post by Ian Warren on Dec 15, 2015 18:58:08 GMT 12
48 years , that is impressive, I think between the Israels and New Zealand we really took the Skyhawk to heart when it came to modifications, pity 15 years back the Gov did not have any forward thinking.
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Post by komata on Dec 16, 2015 5:20:00 GMT 12
Ian
Re: '...pity 15 years back the Gov did not have any forward thinking'.
Oh but they did, they did; a complete destruction of the New Zealand military forces, which Clark, Goff and co hated with a passion. For such people ideology always wins over reality...
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Post by isc on Dec 18, 2015 20:03:02 GMT 12
At least the IAF will replace their Shyhawks with the latest in US hardware. Didn't they get rid of some of them quite a few years back? isc
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Post by skyhawkdon on Dec 18, 2015 21:20:27 GMT 12
The IAF has been selling Skyhawks since the late 70s (their first sale was of 30 A-4Es to Indonesia in 1979). They also sold 10 A-4Ns and 3 TA-4Js to ATSI in 2001 and 6 A-4Ns to BAE around the same time. They operated just under 300 Skyhawks all up. 58 were lost in combat between 1968 and 1982 (52 in just one week in 1973 during the Yom Kippur War!). The last combat loss was in 1982 but they were still flying combat missions up until 2 years ago. Since then they have just been used for advanced fighter pilot training. They had just 30 still in service up until they were retired last week, the rest were in storage or museums. The 30 flyers are now for sale and I am told at least a dozen of them have been sold and will be flying again in the US soon.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 18, 2015 22:11:26 GMT 12
53 lost in combat in a week? Wow, that is a poor record! Is that the worst post-WWII loss of a type in combat in the space of a week?
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Post by baronbeeza on Dec 18, 2015 22:21:31 GMT 12
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 18, 2015 22:27:31 GMT 12
Golly!
These figures for the Six Day War seem to be including aircraft lost on the ground to bombing and missile strikes, does that apply to the 53 Skyhawks lost too?
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Post by angelsonefive on Dec 19, 2015 7:30:25 GMT 12
53 lost in combat in a week? Wow, that is a poor record! Is that the worst post-WWII loss of a type in combat in the space of a week? In the so-called Attrition War over Lebanon's Beqaa Valley on 9/10 June 1982, the Syrian Air Force lost 82 jets in combat with the Israeli Air Force. The Syrian AF committed 100 jets to the battle. This force consisted of Mig-21 and -23 ground attack aircraft ( presumably employed against the Israeli ground forces moving into Lebanon ) and Mig-23M air-to-air fighters. Exact losses to the SAF are uncertain, but Syria and their Soviet suppliers admitted to losing 24 Mig-23s, so I presume that the balance of the 82 Syrian jets were Mig-21s. Some sources say that the total Syrian jet loss was 86 aircraft. That would make the loss of Mig-21s either 58 or 62. IAF losses were nil, none, nada, zip, zero, zilch, etc. a15 |
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Post by skyhawkdon on Dec 19, 2015 7:46:46 GMT 12
Golly! These figures for the Six Day War seem to be including aircraft lost on the ground to bombing and missile strikes, does that apply to the 53 Skyhawks lost too? The Six Day War was in 1967, before the first Skyhawks had been delivered so they didn't take part in it. Nearly all of the 58 Skyhawks lost in service were to SAMs and AAA. None were lost on the ground. In 1970 a Skyhawk shot down two Migs in one sortie - with air to ground rockets and 20mm cannon! |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 19, 2015 8:53:54 GMT 12
It's quite eye opening to see all these figures. Thankfully the Allies never lost anywhere near these amounts of aeroplanes during the two Gulf Wars. Would that be down to better defences on the aircraft or just better training?
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Post by Ian Warren on Dec 19, 2015 15:44:08 GMT 12
Ian Re: '...pity 15 years back the Gov did not have any forward thinking'. Oh but they did, they did; a complete destruction of the New Zealand military forces, which Clark, Goff and co hated with a passion. For such people ideology always wins over reality... I seriously hopes it bites them those two in the butt .. It will oneday .. all these twits running around yelling 'Hubba Jibber jibber' are really start to take a telling affect everywhere, would have been nice to have a NZ component to fight it, strange how quickly turn and create Kaos when they see a weaken side, even the strong sides cannot handle it . |
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Post by Ian Warren on Dec 19, 2015 15:55:21 GMT 12
Would that be down to better defences on the aircraft or just better training? That would be the Bekaa Valley gauntlet of fire, 1973 the Yom Kippur War a super hot spot were the A4 was ideal but the loses were huge due to the defense's from every type of AA should mounted weapon to the heavier .. reason the Israels modified the Skyhawk with the longer tailpipe, I guess both countries use and built on the the best they had. |
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