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Post by Ian Warren on Mar 20, 2016 14:14:43 GMT 12
This one really caught my attention so I started to go through my library I'm all for the Apollo missions , but this TITANIC conspiracy thing is Very very plausible I have one book here printed in 1997 showing the Titanic on the slipway with only 14 portholes on the bow, then beside it is another photo getting fitted out still with only three funnels but now has 16 portholes, I do have another book I lent out a the mo, which has a lot of Dr Robert Ballard's diving photo's and extra photo material, really is something that could be very believable . There was a third ship in the class the was going to be called the Gigantic but renamed Britannica and that was sunk in the Mediterranean during WWI as a hospital ship heading the Dardanelles. Another two photo's here , the Titanic with the 14 portholes and with a red and black hull at launch and the other almost fitted out, you can read Titanic on the side off the hull now with 16 portholes and the hull is now painted grey. I'll scan the photos shortly, I want to check other books I have here, simply something I did not ask myself.
Photo showing the Titanic on the stocks showing its name and 14 only portholes almost ready for launch. Going in the water on launch, still in its black and red hull colour, 14 portholes. Suddenly a close up shows the name Titanic clearly but now with a grey hull. I do have 2 photo's showing the Olympic sliding down the slipway and her hull is white. I would say without a doubt the ships were changed , believe doco is factual or least dose show sheep have been drape over peoples eyeballs ... wonder what James Carmeron is up to now TITANIC II
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Post by nuuumannn on Mar 20, 2016 15:16:01 GMT 12
Careful Ian, you'll go crazy staring at little round holes all day... And Titanic's second sister was the Britannic. White Star Line ships ended in 'ic' and Cunard ships ended in 'ia' as in Mauretania, Aquitania and Lusitania. Have you heard of the Olympic Room at the White Swan Hotel in Alnwick, Northumberland? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Swan_Hotel,_Alnwick
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 20, 2016 16:37:22 GMT 12
I'd find it hard to believe that at least one of all the workers needed to refit the ships to pull off such an elaborate con did not come out and speak later, especially if they had guilt over all the deaths.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 20, 2016 16:39:40 GMT 12
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Post by The Red Baron on Mar 20, 2016 17:01:25 GMT 12
In those days long before photoshop a lot of old photos were hand retouched.Quite often they painted out features in photos when retouching them.
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Post by Bruce on Mar 20, 2016 17:06:07 GMT 12
Portholes may be worth looking into (ba-da boom...) but I would be very cautious making theories around apparent colours of old black and white photos. with the technology of the day both camera and processing wise, I dont think you can conclusively say the difference between "works grey" and "Black" in those photos. I think it is safe to say the area below the waterline was prepainted red before launch, but whether the topsides were grey or black cant be conclusively identified from those pictures. We've seen similar discussions around old photos on the forum before, and unless you have eyewitness evidence its really tough to make a call on it.
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Post by Bruce on Mar 20, 2016 17:07:09 GMT 12
In those days long before photoshop a lot of old photos were hand retouched.Quite often they painted out features in photos when retouching them. also, interior layout (and therefore porthole configuration) can change during fitting out and service....
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Post by Ian Warren on Mar 20, 2016 17:15:49 GMT 12
I was skeptical, thinking yeah right, but look at the hull when the ship is almost complete, you don't go carving out new port holes nor repaint such a huge hull month or so early after launch and to have both ships adorned in the same paint, the well known 'post card' from the period describing the features, pointing out those specific features. Even the promenade deck has change dramatically between the two ships ... It is still very very possible.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 20, 2016 17:46:57 GMT 12
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Post by mumbles on Mar 20, 2016 19:06:43 GMT 12
The longtime Titanic buff checks in. . . I looked into the alleged switch a while back and it's bogus. The supposed motive was that Olympic was uninsurable due to damage inflicted in 1911 by a collision with a Royal Navy cruiser (HMS Hawke). By switching identities with the brand new Titanic the uninsurable identity gets a brand new hull, and the damaged one becomes fully insured. While the Olympic, Titanic and Britannic were sisters, they were not identical. Switching identities would not be a matter of just switching a few nameplates. There are visual differences, enough to identify the last photos taken of the Titanic as being that ship, besides the construction differences that would be recorded at Harland and Wolff, and noticed by shipyard workers who would have to be sworn to secrecy. In addition investigations of the wreck have found Titanic's hull number stamped on at least one of the screws, and evidence of Titanic's name where it was etched into the bow and stern. While all of the Olympics had four funnels, only three were actual smokestacks. The fourth served as a chimney for galleys and the like. I wouldn't read anything into the colouring of the hulls during launch and fitting out, they were painted black and white with gold trim by the time they entered service. This is one of the last, if not the last photo ever taken of the Titanic, as is was leaving Queentown and heading out into the atlantic. Note the enclosed A-deck promenade, which wasn't a feature of the Olympic: www.exploretitanic.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Titanic-Departs-Queenstown-For-New-York.jpgHere is a handy visual guide to the differences. The two ships were often confused in real life - a number of pictures in circulation of the Titanic are actually of the Olympic: joeccombs2nd.com/titanic/titanic-olympic-how-to-tell-them-apart-in-photographs/Here are some of the "anolamies" from Ian's source in the OP explained: magnificenttitanic.tumblr.com/post/41906407430/risto-the-dreamer-so-i-founded-that-text-from
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Post by lumpy on Mar 20, 2016 19:11:48 GMT 12
Well I just watched the full documentary . I would have to say that when presented in the way it is , it certainly does make it all seem very possible . A couple of things dont seem right though - the biggest being that they could swap the ships identities pretty much over a weekend . The Olympic had been in service awhile and involved in an accident that left her " virtually a write off " , but the Titanic was brand new .Surely almost every single person in that shipyard had to have known , and despite reasons for not coming forward , it just seems an impossibly large secret to have kept .
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Post by jp on Mar 20, 2016 19:20:01 GMT 12
Really? Switching identities over a weekend? I know the Irish like to drink, but if I was working on one ship or the other, I'm pretty sure I'd remember which dock the one I was working on was moored at......
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Post by mumbles on Mar 20, 2016 21:45:16 GMT 12
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 20, 2016 22:51:53 GMT 12
I really don't think they could have switched the ships. But I reckon it's true that the Beatles switched Paul McCartney, haha
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Post by Ian Warren on Mar 21, 2016 14:27:21 GMT 12
Here is the Olympic circa late 1912 entering Southhampton now wear its black hull paint but sporting 14 portholes, .... if you also notice the hull off the Titanic with the four fitting-out look how weather beaten and dirty is, for a brand new ship ... one has to remember coaling a ship it a very dirty task hence the reason they paint the hull black to hide the coal dust. On further reading the Olympic in Summer 1912, went in for another major refit which took six months to complete, more life boats added and further internal fittings, Still Very very Plausible considering time attitude of people, the very Victorian pompous attitude and the time of the period , we can't prove it but it makes for a huge 'possible conspiracy', they do it today to hide many things, or least not straight about answers, those days it would have been Very very easy to get away with as long as you had the money and connections.
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Post by nuuumannn on Mar 21, 2016 17:39:18 GMT 12
Hmm, that's weird (Thanks Dave). Maybe the Chinese are involved in the conspiracy as well?
Ian, even if it were true, so what of it? It doesn't change anything, really. History will record that the Olympic (renamed Titanic) went down instead of Titanic (renamed Olympic). Life moves forward in its inexorable way as it has for countless years with nary a ripple caused by this startling discovery.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 21, 2016 18:17:25 GMT 12
Yes, and the switcheroo of Paul McCartney made no difference either, the Beatles were still an annoying boy band that wrecked popular music forever.
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Post by Ian Warren on Mar 21, 2016 22:01:56 GMT 12
Ian, even if it were true, so what of it? It doesn't change anything, really. History will record that the Olympic (renamed Titanic) went down instead of Titanic (renamed Olympic). Life moves forward in its inexorable way as it has for countless years with nary a ripple caused by this startling discovery. Its simply following through , I know It can't make a bit of difference, but same can be said about everything in history, this was only brought to my attention cos one said "have a look at this", I then compared it to the photo's in the books I have here ... again why best way off looking at it why follow any sort off history , the saying is "learn from the past to move toward the future" . The same with the search for many veterans and why, find a snippet of information, and move forward and then you get an answer, sure caused a lot of interest on other forums simply because of the 'Titanic Story' , I was never a conspiracy person again comparing my photo's and click. It is intriguing .. 100 years of lies is one way of putting it tho you can't change anything gets people looking and thinking.
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Post by mumbles on Mar 22, 2016 12:56:14 GMT 12
Here is the Olympic circa late 1912 entering Southhampton now wear its black hull paint but sporting 14 portholes, .... if you also notice the hull off the Titanic with the four fitting-out look how weather beaten and dirty is, for a brand new ship ... one has to remember coaling a ship it a very dirty task hence the reason they paint the hull black to hide the coal dust. On further reading the Olympic in Summer 1912, went in for another major refit which took six months to complete, more life boats added and further internal fittings, Still Very very Plausible considering time attitude of people, the very Victorian pompous attitude and the time of the period , we can't prove it but it makes for a huge 'possible conspiracy', they do it today to hide many things, or least not straight about answers, those days it would have been Very very easy to get away with as long as you had the money and connections. If we are counting portholes, have a look at those on the second deck below the bridge. If that was the Titanic there should be circular portholes in between the rectangular ones, as shown in the image of the Titanic on the right:
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Post by mumbles on Mar 22, 2016 13:01:37 GMT 12
This one really caught my attention so I started to go through my library The supposed footage of the "M P" on the wreck is confirmed as fake by the one of the more recent/prominent conspiracy advocates in the link below. If that's fake, what else have those "documentary" makers lied about? www.titanicswitch.com/claims.html#38
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