Smith
Flight Sergeant
Posts: 28
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Post by Smith on Jan 4, 2007 11:39:27 GMT 12
the Grumman Avenger that I used to keep my eyes peeled for as a child when we drove down Highway 1 from AKL through Ngaruawahia - and I seem to remember there were also a couple of large bombs or torpedoes (munitions of some sort) at the camp entrance (Y/N?)
and the semi-derelict Razorback P-47 that sat on a pole near Motions Rd (AKL Zoo/Motat) in the 80's
Any pics or weblinks to their current circumstances very welcome!
Many thanks, Don
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 4, 2007 11:49:17 GMT 12
Hi Don, long time no see.
That would have been former RNZAF Base Te Rapa where the Avenger NZ2504 was gate guard. It's now in the RNZAF Museum painted as NZ2521.
We had a discussion a while back about the gate sentinals too, I can't recall what the conclusion was on them. I'll have to do a search.
As for the former Motat P-47, which was pulled from the PNG jungle in the 1970's by Charles Darby and Monty Armstrong I believe, I read its cockpit contents were restored and returned to the PNG Government as part of the deal, and the rest eventually made its way down to Wigram in about 1992, as part-swap for the restored Mossie wing that Wigram did beautifully for Motat.
The RNZAF Museum then swapped it to Australia for the Sopwith Pup replica, and the P-47D is now under active restoration to flying condition with Rob Greinert. So, everybody won on that deal. Maybe one day, just maybe, it'd be nice to see it fly across the Tasman for a visit.
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Smith
Flight Sergeant
Posts: 28
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Post by Smith on Jan 4, 2007 12:38:30 GMT 12
Thanks Dave ... I rarely get time to surf these days, but really struggling (to do anything else) today as I pretend to be back at work. I see looking around that the P-47 wasn't on a pole - it had a pole between its legs. Funny how the memory works. Couldn't find a direct link to Rob Greinert's Bankstown resoration shop (found HARS, of which RG is a founding member, is that the one and same thing?) but I found this link (and Aussie RC club website) showing some relatively recent photos of one of Rob Greinert's (three) P-47 restorations as at March 2006. Not the ex-MOTAT P-47 rather the later recovery with the artwork/babe on the nose. wrcs.org.au/news/2006/apr06.htm
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 4, 2007 12:50:52 GMT 12
That's right, the P-47D did have a large diameter pole holding its wary legs from collapsing. When it arrived at Wigram it was a very sorry site. A lot of it seems to actually be rotting plywood. We were at first amazed that the RNZAF Museum had been duped into acquiring it, then later pleased to see they got it off their hands for a better aircraft!
Setter is the man to ask about the P-47D's as he often pops in there for a look and an update. I'm not too familiar with the set up of the business and wheter HARS is the same thing. I know Mr Greinert has recently been involved with the recovery of B-17 Swamp Ghost (half of which has apparently gone missing now if you believe the reports!!). I for one would love to see his three P-47's aloft again.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 4, 2007 13:00:27 GMT 12
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Smith
Flight Sergeant
Posts: 28
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Post by Smith on Jan 4, 2007 13:06:32 GMT 12
I see looking around that the P-47 wasn't on a pole ... But on taking my kids to the Zoo on Boxing Day just gone (the only hot day this summer LOL) did I sneak a glimpse of something on a pole down that driveway from Motions Rd or am I imagining things?
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 4, 2007 13:12:57 GMT 12
Yes, an ex-Battle of Britain film Hurricane replica.
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Smith
Flight Sergeant
Posts: 28
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Post by Smith on Jan 4, 2007 13:25:26 GMT 12
Thanks again Dave ... thought it looked like a fi-glass Hurricane but I also wondered if I'd lost my mind.
And thanks also for the links to those other threads. The Avenger at Te Rapa was of course in much better condition than the one inb that photo, it always looked 100% to me. And thinking about it I reckon those munitions at the gate were torpedoes, certainly they were elongated (and I agree with you, they were blue - two tone?) and I fail to see why we would have tallboys or something like that here in NZ.
Did the Avengers carry torpedoes or did we use them (Avengers) for other purposes?
Off now, it's a sunny day !!! Don't you just hate this el Nino climate? cheers D
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 4, 2007 13:33:02 GMT 12
There are some photos of the Hurricane replica here rnzaf.proboards43.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=Airshows&thread=1126364095&page=1Our Avengers were only used as dive-bombers, petrol sprayers and later topdressers (as well as transport and research aircraft etc). I don't believe they ever had topedoes fitted, ever. Certainly not during the war. I think the Orion was the first RNZAF aircraft to carry torpedoes. Yes, I recall they were two toned, whatever those things were.
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Post by mumbles on Jan 10, 2007 1:26:53 GMT 12
I recall the P-47 having very crude plywood attachments on the elevators when I saw it in 1985. Whether or not they were intended as control locks or stopping the elevators falling off entirely I haven't figured out. Nails were involved..... Of course that is during the era when MOTAT was referred to by Wings magazine as the "Meola Road rubbish dump". Things have improved considerably since then.
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Post by mumbles on Jan 10, 2007 1:32:34 GMT 12
I thought the Avenger at Silverstream (Hutt Valley) went to the RNZAF museum? Where did that go then? In the eighties enough paint had worn of the wings to reveal faded USN 'Stars and Bars'.
Also what happened to the CAC Ceres, and one or two Harvards that were also on site......The DC-3/C-47 wound up at Ohakea for a while in the nineties, but has since moved on, I don't know where.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 10, 2007 1:41:11 GMT 12
The Avenger formerly at Silverstream did indeed go to Wigram. I rememebr it well as it was stored in No. 6 Hangar where I worked, and yes you could indeed see all the layers of paint right back to the factory applied stars and bars. Amazing in all the years it served it was never stripped back.
We used the noseart of Plonky on that machine (which had been apparently supervised by Fred Ladd himself to get it accurate) as a guide whe we painted Sir Tim's Plonky. Wigram had thre Avengers on base at that time, magic.
It was basically held as a swap item, but a few years ago the No. 30 Squadron and Servicing Unit Association managed to convince the RNZAF Museum to loan the Avenger to them. It was loaned to the Gisborne Branch of the Association, and it now resides with them at the GAPS museum at Darton Field, Gisborne. Sadly most of the Gisborne members have since died, leaving just one man there actively working on the restoration. they planned to put it back into good order.
That C-47 that was outside the Ohake Museum is also at GAPS now too.
I have no idea about the other aircraft but as Ceres are like hens teeth I'd hope it's safe somewhere. I thought Motat's example was the only one left in NZ?
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Post by Bruce on Jan 10, 2007 9:32:27 GMT 12
The Harvards have found new homes, including NZ1057 which currently flies regularly from Ardmore. not sure about the Ceres though, like Dave I didnt realise there was another one other than Motats (which has been there some time). the Motat example although complete when delivered will now never be displayed with both wings. James Aviation sent a spare set of wings with it and in the dark days of the "Meola Rd Rubbish tip" era someone decided the wings were taking up too much room and that two could be scrapped. somewhere along the line both wings on one side were taken. The existence of another Ceres may give some hope.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 11, 2007 12:21:47 GMT 12
A photo on page 9 of NZ Wings in May 1985 shows Silverstream's DC-3 ZK-BYF engineless and wingless, Avenger NZ2505 wingless, Harvard Mk NZ1057 wingless and a seemingly complete Ceres C ZK-BZO.
At that time the DC-3 was to be painted as an RAF D-Day Dakota. Did this occur?
Apparently the RNZAF Museum was planning to trade the Avenger to the Australian Fleet Air Arm museum for something, before it instead went to Gisborne. Does anyone know what they planned to trade it for? What would they have spare that the RNZAF operated?
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Post by beagle on Jan 11, 2007 20:57:49 GMT 12
11 sea sprites
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Post by mumbles on Jan 13, 2007 11:29:59 GMT 12
At that time the DC-3 was to be painted as an RAF D-Day Dakota. Did this occur? Yes it did. It was painted in those colours around 1990-91 from memory. I used to see it every day from the train as I went to school. By then it had acquired engines and propellers, but I can't remember if the wings were put back on before it was moved to Ohakea.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 13, 2007 11:52:03 GMT 12
Thanks Sam. The Dakota was repainted into RNZAF WWII Pacific colours when it first arrived at Ohakea. Before long it then was repainted in the later VIP scheme which is a shame I thought, the WWII colours looked great from the photo I saw. I guess the decision was due to visibility, they must have wanted people to see it from the road better?
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Glen T
Flight Lieutenant
Posts: 85
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Post by Glen T on Jan 13, 2007 20:39:37 GMT 12
Guys, I have two photos of those a/c at Silverstream ..early 80's. I grew up in the Hutt too (Normandale!). One with the DC3 in Fieldair colours dated 17.4.1982, and another with it all green, with the Ceres with wings stripped to bare metal. Not too sure on the date of that one!
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 16, 2007 11:29:22 GMT 12
Great photos Glen. I had always wondered what the Silverstream collection was like in its day.
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Post by twilight on Feb 2, 2007 20:10:32 GMT 12
Also what happened to the CAC Ceres, According to my Dad: BPU - Ceres Type B - Damaged in F/L Korima 13Feb70 & WFU. To MoTAT 1972 BZO - Ceres Type C - WFU after F/L from fuel exhaustion near Pahiatua Track, Tararua Ranges, 17Jan72. Stored Wellington; to M Nicolls at Ohakea for rebuild as Wirraway There were 4 others in NZ that were destroyed.
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