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Post by Dave Homewood on May 25, 2016 10:45:19 GMT 12
The NZDF has changed ten of its job titles to make them gender neutral, and thus more appealing to potential female recruits. www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/female-friendly-defence-force-ditches-gender-specific-job-titlesThings I find puzzling, I didn't think the Army used the term Rifleman since WWI. The Riflemen of the Rifle Brigades and Battalions were certainly Infantry in Infantry Battalions and Brigades by the end of WWI and through WWII and beyond. Strange they even dug that ancient title up again. I never came across any Helicopter Crewman Officers when I was in the RNZAF, the highest ranked HCM I met were Warrant officers and most were F/Sgts. How many officers are there established in that trade? Has the RNZAF reverted to their old ways where all aircrew were officers again? And changing "General List Seaman" to "General List Warfare" seems odd. The Navy hasn't been to war in over 70 years and is never likely to in their current state, so surely the title is provocative and misleading, and will upset the peaceniks?? |
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Post by thelensofhistory on May 25, 2016 13:21:12 GMT 12
Granted I am guy. But I can't fathom how the change will make much difference to the number of women who will enlist in the NZDF. Dave , like you for the same reason I was puzzled by the reference to Rifleman. All I will say is I get mad as hell when the NZDF is left grossly underfunded and is resorting to gender neutral job titles. Meanwhile health care is a gigantic sink hole for tax payer $$.
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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on May 25, 2016 13:39:19 GMT 12
Get used to Health soaking up mega-$$$$.
As the population ages, the coast of healthcare is going to continue to increase by a huge amount and people who suffer health problems are voters (as are their friends and members of their family). Politicians know this, so politicians are going to pander to the public at the cost of being voted out of office if they don't.
It is a basic fact of life.
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 25, 2016 14:33:14 GMT 12
I have no issue with them changing the male-specific job titles to neutral titles, it makes sense and should have been done way back as soon as women were allowed into those trades.
I also have no idea why the health budget has been brought up. These days the hospitals are FAR better run then ten years ago, and they have far more sophisticated equipment now than ever before, and they have way better results than they used to, plus much shorter waiting lists. I'm happy to see all this funded. There are other ways to fund defence than to take money from health.
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Post by thelensofhistory on May 25, 2016 15:08:26 GMT 12
I have no issue with them changing the male-specific job titles to neutral titles, it makes sense and should have been done way back as soon as women were allowed into those trades. I also have no idea why the health budget has been brought up. These days the hospitals are FAR better run then ten years ago, and they have far more sophisticated equipment now than ever before, and they have way better results than they used to, plus much shorter waiting lists. I'm happy to see all this funded. There are other ways to fund defence than to take money from health. I was making a general comment concerning how health care can consume ever increasing levels of funding while the NZDF is underfunded. I wasn't calling for cuts in health care spending to fund the NZDF. Coming back to the topic. I wouldn't mind the change in job titles if it struck me as a serious effort to tackle issues around recruitment and retention. Just how does the NZDF compete for talent coming out of high schools or higher education? Unless you provide NZDF housing in the likes of Auckland how can you expect retain members of the NZDF? |
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 25, 2016 15:16:51 GMT 12
Gotcha re health. Yes I see what you mean now. Defence continues to get more and more expensive but no extra money is being sent their way.
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Post by horicle on May 25, 2016 17:12:14 GMT 12
The gender problem is recent and one of our own making. Historically we had Soldiers (from Anglo-French back to Medieval Latin Soldaris, ‘one having pay’) and Sailors which seems to have originated from the 14th century “Sailer”. Today these terms are considered gender neutral but they never were. Then came the 20th century, mechanisation and aviation. The blokes who played with aircraft were “Airmen” as gender un-neutral as you can get. Also the Army and Navy created a lot of job titles that had ‘man’ in them. Now as the 21st century gets up to speed we have to de-gender all those titles we are stuck with. You have to laugh, its no good getting upset, it spoils the beer.
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Post by nuuumannn on May 25, 2016 18:04:56 GMT 12
The ridiculous thing about this changing of words to gender neutral ones is that 'rifleman', 'chairman' and 'seaman' are one word - they might have been two once upon a time but we used to behead women for adultery, and we've changed things since then, at least in this country. 'Seaperson' - Daft!
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 25, 2016 20:59:35 GMT 12
A more worrying thing in that clip for me is that they said a new trend in society is for couples to call their kids a name traditionally meant for the opposite sex. It's been confusing enough for centuries with people called Robin, Jamie and other cross over names. But where will it all end. Nurses called Bernard?! No wonder the kids of modern day America don't have a clue which "bathroom" they are allowed to piss in.
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Post by sculptaur on May 26, 2016 20:27:21 GMT 12
Reguarding the Crewman/Loadmaster "Officer" thing, Pretty sure the reporters just got it confused with the Navy titles they used as examples actually being Seaman/Warfare Officer's. Although, apparently there is potential for a commission as a Loadmaster "About five years after graduation you may be promoted to Sergeant, and from there further promotions are based on merit. There is also an option to become a Commissioned Officer." Source |
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Post by saratoga on May 26, 2016 20:48:59 GMT 12
More importantly ,what is the NZDF going to call their new trucks, after all they are MAN trucks....  |
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Post by shorty on May 26, 2016 21:03:39 GMT 12
Are you still able to refer to male and female plugs and sockets? What about nipples on cable ends and pipe joints?
Are GSI's now called "useless genitalia"?
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Post by saratoga on May 26, 2016 21:10:52 GMT 12
As they are now also embracing diversity, male plugs can go with male plugs and female with female,ball joints are now knee crackers,nipples are fluid retension injectors and BALL Rounds are practice bodies, due to 'round' implying obesity.
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Post by saratoga on May 26, 2016 21:13:03 GMT 12
The ridiculous thing about this changing of words to gender neutral ones is that 'rifleman', 'chairman' and 'seaman' are one word - they might have been two once upon a time but we used to behead women for adultery, and we've changed things since then, at least in this country. 'Seaperson' - Daft! 'Seaperson' sounds ok, after all we've already had 'seamonkeys'..... |
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Post by 11SQNLDR on May 27, 2016 0:00:43 GMT 12
At times like this I prefer to quote Captain Rum from Blackadder; "Last one up the old sea dog gets a lick of the cat"  |
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Post by tbf25o4 on May 27, 2016 13:57:51 GMT 12
So what is going to happen to Airman/Airmen? will they become air persons and perhaps the old adage of Airmanship will have to also change to dare say "professional standards"
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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on May 27, 2016 19:09:55 GMT 12
In the rail transport industry, I still find the term signalperson to be a bit weird, even after more than a decade of its useage.
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Post by eieio on May 28, 2016 8:06:00 GMT 12
I really have to congratulate you "Peoples" on your sense of humour, definately better than spoiling the beer with tears
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Post by lesterpk on May 28, 2016 13:41:57 GMT 12
Hope they're changing Wing Commander to Wing Copersonder, cant have that man word in the title.
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Post by phil on May 30, 2016 17:51:07 GMT 12
Woman will now be woperson.
I think that news article was poorly reported, with a healthy does of clutching at straws. Those clips of US news were just padding they downloaded off youtube.
HCM has become HLM. I'm not convinced they got the navy branch quite right, but I haven't heard for sure.
There are HLM officers, but not many and it was an odd choice when there are plenty of NCR HLM and they could just have used that.
AFAIK there hasn't been any announcement about 'Aircraftman' 'Leading Aircraftman' or 'Midshipman' being renamed. It only seems to apply to trade/branch names, not ranks or classifications.
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