Robert Raymond Money

[Peter Lewis]

I seek more information about Robert Raymond Money.

He was granted his commission as a Second Lieutenant in the 3rd Battalion, East Yorkshire Regiment on 10 March 1915.

Transferring to the RFC later that same year, he opted to be trained as an observer, and on completion of his training, was posted to 12 Squadron, then stationed at Netheravon. Departing with the squadron for France in September 1915, he served until April 1916, at which time he was posted to Home Establishment to train as a pilot.
On 17 September 1916 he was shot down but survived to be captured, spending the remainder of WW1 as a POW.

Postwar he remained in RAF and army service, which ended in 1932.
In 1936 he published a book Flying and Soldiering recounting his adventures up to 1928.

I understand that in later years he became active in property development in London.

The reason I seek more details is that he is listed as the pilot of Desoutter 1 ZK-ABX which crashed on takeoff at Rotorua on 14Sep31.

Why was he in NZ? Had he left the RAF prior to that time, or was he on leave?
Was he employed by the aircraft owners at the time of the crash or had he just hired the Desoutter?
And what details exist of his later life? He obviously lived through WW2 as I have found the following item dated 13Aug47:
"Major Robert Raymond Money, of Corner House,' Lechlade, was fined at Fairford Magistrates' Court on Tuesday for being in possession of firearms and ammunition, without a certificate".

Desoutter 1 ZK-ABX prior to the attentions of Money.
(Yes, owing to a clerical error the Desoutter flew during its short life erroneously marked as ZK-AVX).

[Dave Homewood]

Your 5000th post Peter, well done!!

[Peter Lewis]

Thank you.

So many queries, so many questions.

[The Red Baron]

Theres several pages on Money in Don Staffords book "Flying the Thermal Skies".
In a nut shell he came to NZ in 1929 and became involved with flying at Hamilton.He formed a company Waikato Aviation Co on 28th July 1930.He flew into Rotorua and was offered a position with Rotorua Airways.He accepted and became manager,pilot and a director of the company.Between October 1930 and May 1931 Rotorua Airways flew over 2000 passengers and trained 2 or 3 pupils.He left Rotorua Airways after a year and took a Moth aircraft with him.He came back to Rotorua with the Desoutter,which he had purchased,(theres a story on the ownership of the Desoutter as it was a bit 'murky')to set up in opposition to Rotorua Airways.He was taking off towards Fenton St when he struck a severe downdraft and crashed into a house destroying the plane.

[shorty]

I've always been amused that British officers are referred to by their rank even though they left the forces many years ago. Do they do this because it is their only claim to fame?. I notice that it never applies to NCO's

[errolmartyn]

Roberrt Raymond Money was born at Sleaford, England, 25 Apr 1893

He attended Carre’s Grammar and private schools, 1901-1912

Appointed to a commission in East Yorks Regt as 2nd Lt, 10 Mar 15

Attached RFC as observer and later as pilot, 20 Jun 15

Lt, 1 May 16

Shot down by flak and taken PoW, 17 Sep 16

Repatriated, 18 Dec 18

RFC/RAF until 20 Sep 19

Returned to East Yorks Regt and served until 20 Aug 22

Reserve of Air Force Officers (on probation), General Duties Branch, as Flying Officer, 20 Apr 23

Resigned Reserve commission, 14 Jun 23

Appointed to RAF Short Service Commission as Flying Officer, for five years service, 14 Jun 23

Lost flying speed and crashed into the sea while flying Parnell Panther N7464 but suffered only shock and bruising, 29 May 24

Stalled and crashed Fairey IIID N9764 when landing at Gosport but uninjured, 25 Nov 24

RAF Reserve Class ‘A, 14 Jun 28

Last flew (annual course) at Brough 11-14 Jul 28 ‘’Dart – flown & handled his m/c very well. C at I.’

Transferred to RAF Reserve Class ‘C’ ‘on proceeding to New Zealand’, 19 Aug 28

During 1923-1928 had flown Avro 504, DH.9A, RE.8, Panther, Nightjar, Dart, Flycatcher, Snipe, Bison, Grebe, Fairey IIID and Blackburn Blackburn [yes, there was such a type as the Blackburn Blackburn]

Embarked for New Zealand via Sydney

Disembarked ‘Maheno’ at Auckland, 24 Oct 28

Appointed to commission in New Zealand Air Force (territorial) as a Flying Officer, 1 May 30 (address at time given as ‘Abbotswood’, Hillcrest, Hamilton – electoral roll for 1935 gives occupation as that of market gardener at this address)

Granted New Zealand Pilot’s ‘A’ Licence No 168/‘B’ Licence No 34, 13 Aug 30 (but ‘valid only to 30/9/30’ – appears to be related to his need to obtain a medical clearance, licence later renewed)

Resigned from NZAF, 14 Oct 30

Money is mentioned in an article on the Saunders-Roe Windhover (purchased by Dominion Airlines Ltd) that appears in the April 1964 issue of the Aviation Historical Society of New Zealand's journal.

On applying for renewal of pilot’s licence on 26 Sep 32 stated that he had last flown on 17 Aug 32 (on a Desoutter) and had flown total of 12 hours in previous six months.

‘going to England to fly an air taxi for a local syndicate’, letter to ‘Dear Wilkes’ [Director of Air Services] dated 24 Apr 34

Relinquished RAF commission on completion of service and permitted to retain rank, 14 Jun 34

Embarked for England via Brisbane, c. Jun 1934

Disembarked London, 20 Jul 34

Died in England, 1969

Errol

[Peter Lewis]

May 30, 2016 11:14:13 GMT 12 shorty said:

I've always been amused that British officers are referred to by their rank even though they left the forces many years ago. Do they do this because it is their only claim to fame?. I notice that it never applies to NCO's

I think the 'permitted to retain rank' lets them do this.

The other affectation is 'Captain'.
Individuals like Edgar Percival used the title 'Captain' to indicate that they had captained an aircraft or a ship, not as a military rank.

[errolmartyn]

Waikato Aviation Company, Limited, commercial aviators and aircraft proprietors, Hamilton. Capital, £100, in £1 shares. Subscribers: M. A. Scott and R. R. Money, 50 shares each. (New Zealand Herald, 30 Jul 30)

AIR COMPANIES' MERGER.
TOURIST FLIGHTS IN SUMMER FAST TRIP YESTERDAY. (By Telegraph.—Own Correspondent.) HAMILTON, this day. The Waikato Aviation Company and Rotorua Airways have amalgamated. The new company will be known as Rotorua Airways, and with headquarters at Rotorua will operate a De Havilland Puss Moth, a three-seater cabin monoplane, and a standard Gipsy Moth. The Puss Moth is similar to the one at present being flown to Australia by Captain. Matthews. It is expected that tourist and passenger work will occupy most of the summer season, but in the autumn the company hopes to organise a federation of the smaller aero clubs in this district which cannot obtain Government assistance. A very fast trip was made by Captain R. R. Money yesterday. He flew from Kerikeri, Bay of Islands, to Hamilton in 2h 10m flying time. He flew in a Gipsy Moth, and had favourable wind. (Auckland Star, 25 Sep 30)

Errol

[Peter Lewis]

Thanks Errol.

The Moth you mentioned would have been DH60G ZK-AAV.
This passed through Hamilton Airways Ltd., Rotorua Airways Ltd., Raymond R Money of Hamilton, Martin Alexander Scott of Frankton Junction, Reginald G Tappenden & Percival C Lewis (t/a Bohunk Airways) of Mangere and finally to the Wellington Aero Club.

Still seems to be unclear what Money did between 1934 and the 1960s.

The rather garishly painted DH60G Moth ZK-AAV, presumably during its pre-Aero Club days

[errolmartyn]

"
Still seems to be unclear what Money did between 1934 and the 1960s."

In Jan 1936 and Jul 1937 RAF Air Force Lists he appears as a Civilian Recruiting Officer for the RAF at Leeds Recruiting Depot. Same role in Mar 1938 and Jun 1939 Lists but now at Cardiff. Not mentioned in an earlier, Apr 1935, List.

On 28 Oct 38 was again placed on Reserve of Air Force Officers list, as a Fg Off (Hon Flt Lt), but does not appear in the AFL for Oct 1940. Looks as though he went back to his old East Yorks Regt, as in 1945 the London Gazette records him there as being on the Regular Army Reserve and granted the rank of Hon Major.

Errol

[sqwark2k]

May 30, 2016 11:14:13 GMT 12 shorty said:

I've always been amused that British officers are referred to by their rank even though they left the forces many years ago. Do they do this because it is their only claim to fame?. I notice that it never applies to NCO's

I believe it is a tradition conferred on Military Officers who achieve the rank of Squadron Leader ( or equivalent) and above.

It's very common in the UK but there are retired officers in NZ today that are commonly referred to by their rank upon retirement, predominately Air Officers and equivalent.

[Peter Lewis]

May 30, 2016 9:55:06 GMT 12 The Red Baron said:

Theres several pages on Money in Don Staffords book "Flying the Thermal Skies".

Yes there is, but that also seems to add to the problem.

Stafford quotes some stories from Money's writings.
However, Moneys book only covers his story up to 1928.
So where and when was the later New Zealand coverage published?

[Dave Homewood]

Would there perhaps have been anything about him in the Whites magazines? That covered a lot of civil aviation personalities.

[The Red Baron]

Yes there is, but that also seems to add to the problem.

Reading Don Staffords book I would say the Money story was told to him by Stan Blackmore,as Money had taught Blackmore to fly,so the dates could be a bit sketchy.

[Dave Homewood]

May 29, 2016 21:25:55 GMT 12 Peter Lewis said:

(Yes, owing to a clerical error the Desoutter flew during its short life erroneously marked as ZK-AVX).

[Dave Homewood]

NEW ZEALAND HERALD, 16 SEPTEMBER 1931