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Post by harrysone on May 30, 2016 11:06:26 GMT 12
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Post by htbrst on May 30, 2016 14:29:14 GMT 12
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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on May 30, 2016 15:31:44 GMT 12
The imminent centenary of the largest naval battle of World War One More like the largest naval battle of all time, especially in terms of sheer big-gun firepower. |
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Post by harrysone on May 30, 2016 21:01:31 GMT 12
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Post by Bruce on May 30, 2016 21:11:20 GMT 12
One of my Ancestors, Stoker Charles Henry Bland, was killed in action at 16.26 on 31st May 1916. The exact time is pretty certain as that was when HMS Queen Mary Exploded. Shoddy ammunition handling practices contributed it appears. Deep in the ship, the poor stokers didn't stand a chance  |
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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on May 31, 2016 18:10:51 GMT 12
from Fairfax NZ....100 years on: A battle called JutlandIt is 100 years today since a New Zealander played
a vital role in one of the largest war battles ever.
David Broome dissects The Battle of Jutland.By DAVID BROOME | 7:21AM - Tuesday, 31 May 2016 The HMS New Zealand. — Photograph: National Museum of the Royal New Zealand Navy.THE Germans would call it Skagerrak, but we immortsalise it as Jutland; the largest surface battle in history.
In the early hours of May 31st, 1916, Germany's Admiral Reinhard Scheer took 99 ships of Germany's High Seas fleet into the North Sea. Despite what Jutland became he never intended to fight a pitched battle. Scheer instead wanted to destroy pockets of British Empire's Grand Fleet in order to even a growing imbalance.
The British Admiralty had, however, broken Germany's naval codes allowing them to plan a trap of their own. Hours before Scheer had even left port, 151 ships of the Grand Fleet were at sea commanded by a future New Zealand Governor-General, Admiral Sir John Jellicoe. Jellicoe's fleet included 28 dreadnought battleships and nine battlecruisers; easily outgunning Scheer's 16 dreadnought battleships and five battlecruisers.
One of Jellicoe's ships included the battlecruiser New Zealand; our own castle of steel.
On May 31st, at 2.28pm, the first shots of Jutland were fired but contact between the battlecruisers of Germany's Admiral Franz Hipper and those of Admiral David Beatty, wouldn't come until 3.45pm. Within just 40 minutes both Indefatigable and Queen Mary became pyres for 2283 sailors after German shells penetrated thin armour and immolated both ships. Beatty exclaimed: “There seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today” but it could have been much worse.
One 11-inch shell struck New Zealand in a similar place that had claimed her sisters but it did little damage. Maybe it was the piupiu and heitiki gifted to her in 1913 because New Zealand's only battle casualty was a canary. South Canterbury museum social history curator Chris Rapley and naval researcher
Fred Wilson CBE unfurl a silk ensign which flew from the HMS New Zealand
at the Battle of Jutland in 1916. — Photograph: John Bisset/Fairfax NZ.By 4.40pm, Hipper had led Beatty's eight battlecruisers and battleships into Scheer's trap, leaving Beatty only one option and that was to run towards Jellicoe.
After 80 minutes of hot pursuit the hunter became the hunted for out of the murk loomed the British battle fleet. Jellicoe expertly deployed his battleships into a battle line that pummelled the leading German ships. Yet disaster struck at 6.30pm when Invincible, the first of all battlecruisers, blew up killing 1,022 crew including Rear Admiral Sir Horace Hood. One of Invincible's salvoes would posthumously claim the German battlecruiser Lutzow.
It was now Scheer on the run after a masterful 180-degree battle turn, but he was also steaming away from home.
Then Scheer did a most inexplicable thing. At 6.55pm, he turned his ships 180 degrees back towards the British that even post-war Scheer could not explain but in the fading light his ships were silhouetted. Jellicoe's armada crossed his ‘T’ hammering the Germans with salvos of 12-inch, 13.5-inch and 15-inch shells. As Scheer's fleet faced annihilation he needed a distraction so at 7.13pm signalled: “Battlecruisers at the enemy. Give it everything.” Eight minutes later in went every torpedo firing destroyer he could muster.
With these underwater missiles racing towards him, Jellicoe ordered the standard response and turned his ships away from the oncoming torpedoes. As he did that Scheer executed a third battle turn and the fleets diverged. The guns fell silent for 30 minutes before Jellicoe's scouts found Scheer just as the sun was setting. The crew of the HMS New Zealand. — Photograph: National Museum of the Royal NZ Navy.In Britain, the Admiralty decoded Scheer's urgent plea for aerial reconnaissance of Horn's Reef ‘at dawn’ but this battle winning intelligence never made it to Jellicoe. In the darkness the Grand Fleet was full of confidence that the coming day would deliver a second Trafalgar. Scheer used the Royal Navy's fear of night fighting and much luck, to work his big ships around and then through the British.
Before midnight seven British battleships unbelievably had their German adversaries at point blank range but did not fire for fear of revealing their position. The barely afloat battlecruiser, Seydlitz, slid past four British battleships without harm leading the frustrated gunnery officer aboard Marlborough to comment: “What I ought to have done was to open fire and blown the ship out of the water and then said ‘Sorry’.” Unbelievably, no-one informed Jellicoe despite it signposting Scheer's escape.
By 1.56am on June 1st, Scheer was battling through the final British flotilla and Germany would claim Jutland as a victory. Yet it was one that King Pyrrhus would recognise. While the Grand Fleet easily made up its losses and was immediately battle ready, Germany's fleet needed months of repairs. Scheer's refusal of ennoblement speaks the most about this apparent ‘victory’, or as an American wrote, “the German Fleet has assaulted its jailer, but it is still in jail.”
Jutland meant that the British Empire's war-winning weapon, naval blockade, continued to grind Germany's economy into dust. Within Germany discontent steadily grew, especially in 1918, following the twin failures of the spring offensives on-land and the U-Boats at sea.
By October 1918, the German admirals knew the war was lost so decided on a final showdown. But the élan of 1916 was long gone and sailors did not share their admiral's enthusiasm for martyrdom. As the fleet assembled mutinies broke out and by the beginning of November it was full scale revolution. Germany's collapse from within is Jutland's ultimate legacy making it the most decisive battle of WWI.• David Broome is a member of the Western Front Association with an interest in naval history.__________________________________________________________________________ Related story:
• The legend of HMS New Zealand — the lucky shipwww.stuff.co.nz/national/last-post-first-light/80535484 |
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Post by nuuumannn on May 31, 2016 23:02:11 GMT 12
That's not a bad wee article, nice synopsis, apart from the "THE HMS New Zealand".
Also worth remembering is that Jutland saw the first aerial reconnaissance of an enemy fleet, by a Short 184 flown by Lt Fredrick Rutland, inevitably known forever after as 'Rutland of Jutland'. The forward fuselage of the Short 184 survives in the Fleet Air Arm Museum at Yeovilton.
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Post by davidd on Jun 1, 2016 11:41:04 GMT 12
Although Jellicoe was New Zealand's Gov-Gen 1920 - 1924, I don't think he can truly be described as a New Zealander. Except perhaps as an honorary one. I think all our early Gov-Gens up to a certain point were from "Home", although many of our "true blue" NZ ones have had very strong links with the UK.
Dave D
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Post by nuuumannn on Jun 1, 2016 12:14:12 GMT 12
Yes Dave, but the press have to find a "New Zealand" connection to everything; haven't you noticed that when a disaster happens abroad these days, all they do is mention the Kiwi casualties.
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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Jun 1, 2016 14:00:06 GMT 12
Yes Dave, but the press have to find a "New Zealand" connection to everything; haven't you noticed that when a disaster happens abroad these days, all they do is mention the Kiwi casualties. Oh, well....at least we Kiwis aren't as bad as the Americans....  |
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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Jun 1, 2016 14:00:41 GMT 12
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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Jun 1, 2016 14:47:29 GMT 12
from The Timaru Herald....Giant battlecruiser flag returns to public
view in Timaru on Jutland anniversaryBy JACK MONTGOMERIE | 7:01PM - Tuesday, 31 May 2016 Naval historian and Former navy chief Fred Wilson, CBE, recounts the history of an ensign
flown at the Battle of Jutland on the battle's 100th anniversary at the South Canterbury
Museum on Tuesday evening. — Photograph: Mytchall Bransgrove/Fairfax NZ.A GIANT giant naval flag is once again on display 100 years after it flew at the Battle of Jutland.
The HMS New Zealand's ensign is in public view in Timaru, where it was gifted for use on the ship.
Navy Commodore John Campbell officially opened the South Canterbury Museum's exhibition of the flag on Tuesday at 5pm, after naval reservists performed a white ensign sunset ceremony.
Naval researcher and former chief of the Royal New Zealand Navy, retired rear admiral Fred Wilson, CBE, told about fifty former naval personnel, Timaru District Council representatives and members of the public the day of the battle dawned exactly one hundred years ago in the North Sea, near Denmark's Jutland Peninsula.
Wilson's research was instrumental in revealing the flag's history. He said HMS New Zealand was fifth in a group of six ships Vice-Admiral Sir David Beatty led toward German battlecruisers. Although the ship remained relatively unscathed during the battle in which 6,000 British and 2,500 German sailors died, the flag bears the marks of the battle.
The naval ensign and a Union Jack were purchased with funds from a national women's fundraising drive the women's branch of the Navy League in Timaru initiated.
Presenting the flags when HMS New Zealand visited Timaru in May 1913, Mrs Edgar Jones said “the women of New Zealand are greatly impressed with the necessity of maintaining the supremacy of the British Navy”.
Timaru District Mayor Damon Odey said the flag carried “absolutely amazing” history with it and said the district was fortunate to have a museum capable of displaying it.
Museum director Philip Howe said staff were initially unsure if the museum had room to display the flag, but were able to accommodate it with explanatory information panels.www.stuff.co.nz/timaru-herald/news/80603955 |
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Post by davidd on Jun 1, 2016 18:28:33 GMT 12
Found this on the J-Aircraft website, and thought it might be of interest here. I have excluded the original author's name, but it is his message that is of interest here. Have also added a few general comments for those not familiar with non-British naval actions (although as mentioned below, the British were there.)
David D
Jutland
May 27, 2016, 08:12:47
Quote
With the 100th anniversary of the Battle of Jutland rapidly approaching, I would like to make mention that an IJN officer was lost during the battle.
He was LCDR Chusuke SHIMOMURA (Naval Academy Class 30) lost aboard HMS QUEEN MARY. He was promptly promoted posthumously to CDR. He left behind a wife, son and daughter.
May he and all who lost their lives there, rest in peace.
Dave D back again:
I wonder if any RN officers or men were lost in the battle of Tsu Shima in May 1905 - possibly not, as so far as I can remember, no major Japanese units were sunk, and practically the entire Russian fleet, including auxiliaries, was sunk, destroyed or captured - bit of a one-sided affair. This battle was considered one of the most total victories ever achieved in naval warfare. Many RN observers sailed with the Japanese fleet to study new types of equipment (especially guns, also the new fangled wireless telegraphy equipment, fitted in most Japanese as well as Russian ships) in a real battle for the first time, right on the cusp of a new dawn in naval warfare, the introduction of the Dreadnaught-type battleship.
David D
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Post by ErrolC on Jun 1, 2016 19:21:43 GMT 12
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Post by nuuumannn on Jun 2, 2016 14:26:05 GMT 12
Indeed, although there was an RN observer aboard the Mikasa as a guest of Togo, if I can remember; he watched and recorded the battle as it happened.
"
Thankfully not, but it shows that even at the centre of the known universe you can still be excruciatingly ignorant of the rest of the world.
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Post by jthomso1 on Jun 6, 2016 10:16:08 GMT 12
On a personal note my step-grandfather participated in the Battle of Jutland as a very young sailor. While the specifics have slipped my memory, I do recall being told as a young child that as a result of the battle that his hair turned from Black to White overnight during the action.
I should look up his details. Can anyone point me in the direction of tracing RN service records from this time?
Cheers
Jim
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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Jan 9, 2017 13:20:51 GMT 12
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Post by Ian Warren on Jan 9, 2017 22:02:08 GMT 12
Strangely only just picked on this thread , I do have a new painting near completion, I wanted to get it complete last year, HMS New Zealand during the Battle of Jutland, quite remarkable the Battlecruiser fire more rounds of its main armament than any large unit from both sides, I think I have really created the feel , just something about these ships.
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Post by nuuumannn on Jan 10, 2017 16:14:37 GMT 12
Yet it still didn't manage to hit a damned thing! That's not entirely accurate, but accuracy was not a strong point to match that astonishing rate of fire. Look forward to seeing the drawing; Dreadnoughts are fascinating and look very cool.
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Post by Ian Warren on Jan 10, 2017 16:36:39 GMT 12
When you look at it the Germany Navy was really doing well, but in saying that guess they had that doubt with the previous history of the Royal Navy, slinging shells at each other, accuracy wasn't invented back then, a superb book, authors John Costello and Terry Hughes 'JUTLAND 1916' really is an amazing read, simply many things just simply stupidity of the period.
Again returned to kiwithrottlejockey post, it is interesting to listen about the pompous attitude , one thing this book above shows in the reading , very typical of the British of the period.
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