Aircraft of the Nation

[Dave Homewood]

The Lancaster at the Museum of Transport and Technology in Auckland was donated by the French government to the people of New Zealand. Motat is the custodian of it, and the RAF Bomber Command Association is it's minder I guess. But in reality it belongs to the people of New Zealand.

I was wondering how many other aircraft are the property of everyone in the country too. I guess this may also apply to the Spitfire and Zero in the Auckland Museum? I'm fairly sure Sir Keith Park arranegd for the RAF to donate the Spitfire to the people of New Zealand. And the Zero was a war prize brought back by the RNZAF so i guess that (and the doodlebug) may apply here?

Are there any others? Who technically owns Jean Batten's Gull now? Has that been donated to the nation as a treasure too? Are any other Motat aircraft nationally owned treasures?

[ARU]

"doodlebug" I assume V-1, i didnt know the museum had one, then again it has been a good few years since i had last been there

[Dave Homewood]

Yes the Auckland War Memorial Museum has a genuine German V-1, and at Motat there is also a wartime US copy which I think they made some of to trial them and find out what they were all about.

[twilight]

The Percival Gull was bought (for cash?) from Shuttleworth by Auckland International Airport Ltd. in a commercial transaction.

[Dave Homewood]

Thanks Twilight, I thought that was the case but I wasn't sure. It's great to have such a national treasure publically displayed in NZ.

[Damon]

At Te Papa Museum in Wellington. There is a Tiger Moth ZK-AJO (?) which is in its top dressing configuation as it was used by James Aviation. I am not sure who or how it was donated.But I guess its owned by the Museum in some way.

[Dave Homewood]

Good point Damon, I guess it would now be a national treasure item.

[Peter Lewis]

The Tiger is AJO and yes, it was donated by James Aviation. Precisely to whom is, of course, the question. There may be some documentation in the museum files.
This query over who is actually the recipient has caused a lot of confusion and heart-ache over the years, as was typified by the NZ3009 saga when it was being restored at MoTAT.
It's not so bad when the aircraft as one item is acquired, but it becomes very confusing whan a restoration is taking place.
Imagine if you have a P-40 bit under your bed, and someone knocks on the door and says "Hi, I'm Fred, and I'm working on the restoration of a P-40 at MoTAT. We hear that you have an widget off one, which we lack, and would you be prepared to donate yours to the cause?"
"Sure" you say, "glad to help" and hand it over.
Now who, exactly, have you donated the widget to? Fred? MoTAT? or someone else who may, in later years, appear and lay claim to the airframe?
That's where the whole thing becomes damn murky.

[Dave Homewood]

Yes, I guess that's a good point. I had never thought about it that way before. At least with the Motat P-40 it was replaced with another airframe by the claimants. I believe the Corsair caused a lot of heartache for Motat too when it was removed to be sold abroad. Thank God it was though or it wouldn't be flying today.

At least with the Lancaster and the Auckland Spitfire it has been made clear that these are gifts to the nation.

[fletcherfu24]

One would think the James Aviation Tiger was gifted by Ossie James himself as James Aviation vanished around 1983.Great that it has been preserved as I think its the only 100% original Ag-Tiger that was only ever used for topdressing.Pity it wasn't in an ag aviation museum though.
Pity the James Aviation DC-3 at Mystery Creek wasn't in a more air minded location for presevation.

[Dave Homewood]

Yes, I do believe it was Ossie that donated the Tiger Moth to Te Papa.

From memory he hoped to donate it and also attempted to donate his Turboprop Fletcher prototype to the Waikato Museum in Hamilton. However they are a bunch of idiots who prefer their massive museum to be empty and seemingly only have Maori artifacts and a bit of 'artistic' tat, and declined. So the Turbo Fletcher went to Motat and the Tiger to Te Papa.

Mystery Creek are totally off the ball too. They are the National Agricultural Museum, and hold the National Agricultural Fieldays. Almost all those farmers who go there in their billions every wet week of June owe their very existence to the likes of the topderessing Tiger Moths and Fletchers. Why they have not set up a building on their massive complex to house both those artifacts and put the poor old Dakota inside is just beyond me. One dollar from every head that passes through their gate in a year would pay for it all.

Instead they're trying to mould themselves as being an international sports arena as there's more money in that from sponsorship...

So the James collection is now spread across the country when it could have been two minutes drive from Rukuhia where the business was based. Very sad.

[Peter Lewis]

fletcherfu24 said:

I think its the only 100% original Ag-Tiger that was only ever used for topdressing.

So the Canterbury Aero Club - which owned AJO from May1946 to October 1949 - never actually used it?

I saw AJO at the Rukuhia open day 26th March 1966, when it was already marked up as a flying museum piece, having been bought back from Doug Kain (yes it did fly during that day):





I understood that it was donated to the proposed museum of New Zealand soon after that time, possibly during the early 1970s. I never saw it active again. It did spend quite a few years in museum storage until the museum was fitted out, and was still officially registered to James Aviation Ltd until 6/5/1993.
I note that it was repainted before going on display in the museum (which is a pity) as seen here in 1998:

[Dave Homewood]

Hmm, I had heard it was still over at Rukuhia till recent years and Ossie had offered it to the Waikato Musuem. You just cannot believe all you hear, eh. There was certaibly something in the Times about the Fletcher being offered after it was removed from the gate at Rukuhia.