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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2017 15:01:10 GMT 12
Good stuff Ando! Thanks Dave for putting up the pictures - it's great to see it for real.
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Post by aeromedia on Aug 3, 2017 18:57:51 GMT 12
Great stuff Ando: VH-OIA , it's screaming at me OIA, FAC gleaning information for the heavyweights. How about Official Information Act scripted across the cowl?
Ok, was just a brain spurt. Carry on.
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Post by johnnyfalcon on Aug 3, 2017 19:31:11 GMT 12
...or, Ozzie Ozzie Oi Oi!!?
Ay?
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Post by Mustang51 on Aug 4, 2017 7:50:44 GMT 12
Pete, Nearly did not make it at all to be registered after years of work on it. Don't know if I told you the story but perhaps on your next trip across the Ditch and a glass or two of red...
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Post by johnnyfalcon on Aug 4, 2017 20:50:51 GMT 12
So Ando, are ya gonna fly her over the ditch to show her off to your adopted fam when she's done? Next Classic Fighters at Omaka should be about right...mate! Can I book a ride now?
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Post by agalbraith on Aug 4, 2017 22:31:29 GMT 12
Thanks for the update! That's a great project, and appreciate the update
Cheers
Anthony
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Post by Mustang51 on Aug 7, 2017 8:40:17 GMT 12
Think I'd need more drop tanks than the old girl could carry to get her across but I would love to fly her in NZ when she is finished. johnnyfalcon... "you're on!" Not a whole lot to report after the weekend. Did the Temora Showcase trip on Saturday (they flew the Wirraway, Boomerang, Hudson, Meteor and Spit VIII), then Sunday undertook the paint stripping of all those tailplane ribs shown in the pics. Had forgotten what the smell of paint stripper burnt flesh was like..... Does not matter how hard you try there is always something 'exposed' that gets burnt. All finished now and as shiny as the day they were manufactured. Mr.Cessna painted all the interiors of the Birdogs including all mating surfaces and components so very little corrosion unlike all their other 100 Series machines. The current 100 Series SIDS progamme is a direct result of this lack of interior treatment but the Cessna 305 (Birdog) is excluded from the necessity of the SIDS. A few ribs had some slight corrosion so this week will be bead blasted then all shall be alodined and then primed and painted green. As mentioned before there is lots of repetition in this exercise. Cannot wait to cut the new skins. As a little aside, the Birdog had her 66th Birthday on Sunday rolling out of the Wichita factory on 6 August 1951 as 51-4635.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 14, 2017 13:33:00 GMT 12
Here's another update from Ando, who says: “The lower right and left side elevator skins. Right lower has the trim tab actuator rod cut out. After paint stripping to remove the lacquer paint these are as good as the day they were manufactured over 66 years ago. Lacquer was removed to be replaced with two-pack epoxy primer and a surface coat of two pack green. If there is a thought when someone restores a metal aircraft about not priming and painting the unseen interior surfaces before reassembling, this is the reason to go the extra yards. If you looked at Cessna unprimed/painted metal elevator skins even 15 years old I guarantee you would find surface corrosion present. Not so where all the surfaces are painted unless the preparation was poor. If you have surface corrosion you will have corrosion between components including the wing spar attach fittings.”  |
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Post by Mustang51 on Aug 14, 2017 13:38:59 GMT 12
Have to make a new upper right skin as the original has been hammered by hail and is cosmetically unsuitable
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2017 19:30:27 GMT 12
Those skins are in stunning condition! It's hard to believe they're as old as they are. Remember, folks: paint everything!
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Post by Mustang51 on Sept 6, 2017 15:19:58 GMT 12
Folks, Here is a blog that I posted on Craig's Cropmaster rebuild thread. Thanks to Dave's magic fingers it is repeated here for anyone who did not see it. I hope that no-one ever gets into the same predicament as follows.....
A number of years ago I applied to CASA to register the Dog.....not a problem you would think however I was very surprised to receive a letter indicating that my machine had been registered in the USA in 2004. Strange that as it had arrived in a box in Sydney in 1998 (yes I know its been a long time...). Not Happy Jan as I had expended a considerable amount on it in that intervening period.
Made appointment to see Registrar of Aircraft of CASA in Canberra together with two other supernumeries of his department to explain the facts. Drove down with all my supporting data in a number of folders. He listened but basically shrugged his shoulders and said that as "my" aircraft was registered in the USA there was nothing they could do - and by the way no offer of any support. Really pis*ed off on drive back to Sydney. When I am annoyed my worst trait is that I get angry and stubborn. Others would amplify that statement quite a bit. So, its supposed to be Registered in USA so cannot be registered in Oz? Hmmmmm. Took some time to write again this time with 23 pages of supporting documents, shipping papers, Customs documents, Sworn Statements, extracts from Minard Thompson's book, pic of the Modification Plate - there was no data plate when it was purchased, etc, etc, etc and a five page letter. Same response came back. Angry Bird. Sat and thought for a bit more then modified my letter that had been sent to CASA and addressed it to Registration Branch of FAA with the same supporting data. Answer comes back "we'll look into it" ie for that read "Not very interested old chum". At the same time I sent the letter to the FAA, I also sent a copy of the FAA letter (slightly modified to be crafted individually) to US Ambassador in Canberra requesting assistance with the FAA. Two pronged approach through FAA and also via Department of State. Hmmm email to Minard who sold the Dog to me who also works for FAA. Another letter sent to Head of Dept of Transportation in USA (after a Google search that was very fruitful), and another to Head of FAA (Google also very helpful) both with same supporting data. Hmmm, "Who runs Dept of Transportation and FAA in Congress and Senate"? Letters and data off to Senators and Congressmen as well (Google certainly helping here). Registration in USA requires submission of data and a signed statement..... a breach here is a Federal offence. Hmmmm. Letter and data off to Head of Section that looks after Federal Fraud in FBI in Washington.....(Google again very helpful). Nada back yet. Email to Minard in FAA who asks the lady tasked with investigating my original letter to FAA what's happening (this a very long time after my initial request to FAA). She throws her arms up and says it has escalated "Way above my pay grade"...All of these letters to the various individuals in USA have the benefit of a Google search to establish their bios from the US Govt websites and so each letter is crafted as personal to them with references to their background but the basics are identical. Something personalized always helps.
Why the hell not..... "Dear Mr President.....". Same supporting data but personalized from info in his bio ref his beginnings as an attorney and professor and his knowledge of the law and justice.
After such a long hiatus letters suddenly arrive back from Senator, Congressman, Dept of Transportation, FAA, FBI, US Ambassador to say things are being looked into. Hmmmm some progress....Email from FBI asking for a High Res pic of the modification plate. (Should be noted that this plate carries the Mod Status of the airframe but also has the airframe part number, Type, serial number and the Cessna Stamp etc so they wanted to do some real checking to see if it was genuine). More FBI emails. FBI visits owner of "51-4635" in USA who is a 'bit' surprised. Explanations made. Further visit to "owner" from FAA Investigator. More explanations. More emails received from FBI then FAA Investigator. Request for personal interview with CASA at Bankstown which was conducted by Registrar of Aircraft - same guy from Canberra I had seen before. Ask to see the Mod Plate and "photocopy" it. I said it was not going out of my hands but would 'accompany' them to the photocopier but why was that needed anyway as a High Res had gone to the FAA? Mutterings but reluctantly acceded.
More emails from FAA Investigator.
Through further efforts of Minard who visited the "owner" of "51-4635" in USA, the "owner" concedes and for the princely sum of $1.00 (which Minard paid) I obtain the remade Cessna Data Plate for "51-4635" and a "transfer of Ownership". Here an aside. That 'other' "51-4635" had no data plate to begin with. When it was purchased from a scrappie it was just the forward fuselage (cockpit area) and nothing else, a statement was obtained from the scrappie that it was "51-4635". On this basis the "owner" approached Cessna who immediately and without question issued a modern slim line data plate (nothing like the original) carrying the details of "51-4635". That new data plate in hand, the "owner" went to the FAA and they had no hesitation in registering the aircraft in the USA. See how easy that was and with no background checks..... had the "owner" done some research like any good historian and looked at Minard's comprehensive book on the Birdog, he would have seen in the list of Birdogs manufactured that "51-4635" had been exported to Australia. A simple further check of the publication date would have shown that this book preceded the date of registration of "51-4635" in the USA. All that the "owner" had to do to get clear was to look at the list of serials and pick one that had no further comments as to its fate after the military and he would have been home and hosed and there would not have been a problem for me. He had just plucked a number out of the air and that is what caused the entire painful process.
Finally, letter received from CASA (guessing lots of pain to the bureaucrats having to justify things in the USA and here on OZ), with copy of letter to FAA saying that "From the evidence presented from both the USA and Australia there was now no reason not to register "51-4635" as an Australian aircraft" et voila.... VH-OIA.....now registered to Peter Noel Anderson esq.
Had I not been a stubborn bast*rd and caved in to the bureaucrats I would have had a useless aircraft that could never have been registered and I would have wasted $62,000 that could never be recouped. After telling CASA that my aircraft was "51-4635" I could not suddenly come up with a data plate that had a different serial as 'due diligence' by CASA would have revealed subterfuge.
I have gone into this here ( I know it is long and boring) to show just how easy it is for identities to be muddied, changed, lost and the end result could be substantial financial loss for the unfortunate buyer. I should have registered my aircraft earlier but did not to avoid the annual fee. Penny wise but (unknowingly) pound foolish.
Hope this may in some way help anyone contemplating a project or aircraft purchase. Do your homework and possibly avoid the angst I went through.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2017 15:44:24 GMT 12
Incredible. Thanks for sharing that, it's just incredible how odd and difficult the industry can be.
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Post by mit on Sept 7, 2017 12:59:16 GMT 12
Interesting story re the s/n, I was involved with a similar case about a year ago when a mate was looking at buying a 185, he had found this one in ozzy and asked me to look into it.
I quickly discovered the aircraft s/n on the CASA register was also listed on the FAA register to another aircraft in the States which has also been on the Canadian register. After much digging (Log books confirmed the s/n was as per the CASA register) we finally got someone to look at the date plate on the airframe.... which was different! This 185 has been in ozzy since the mid 60s and has always been recorded with wrong s/n not only with CASA but also in the log books, no one had ever noticed!
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Post by Mustang51 on Sept 18, 2017 17:01:31 GMT 12
In the Birdog there are references to placards in the cockpit area but one has intrigued me. It is shown on the right side of the cockpit just underneath the windscreen but ahead of the main bulkhead. This is weird as it is shown where the interior lining is placed and I had no idea what it referred to and neither have I seen it on any restored example. Weird until now. I was given a sample of that particular lining panel and lo and behold, there it is. Not on the lining itself but on a metal plate that is riveted to the liner. White lettering on a black background with six lines of text giving airframe limitations. Black background is 28mm x 88mm.
If I supplied the wording is there anyone out there who could make up some decals for me or suggest someone who could. Font is a bit strange.
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Post by planewriting on Sept 18, 2017 20:36:23 GMT 12
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Post by Mustang51 on Sept 19, 2017 7:25:33 GMT 12
planewriting, Do you have an email address for Marty? Work looks great so I think he is just the man. Again I say this forum is absolutely fantastic for obtaining information unlike some of the backbighting, spitting and scratching you see on most other forae around the world.
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Post by planewriting on Sept 19, 2017 14:04:21 GMT 12
Hi Mustang51
I have just sent you a pm. Hope it helps with your search for help.
Regards
planewriting
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2017 14:13:53 GMT 12
PM sent from me too :-)
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Post by Mustang51 on Sept 19, 2017 14:50:37 GMT 12
Thanks for the help and guidance guys. I really appreciate it.
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Post by planewriting on Sept 19, 2017 23:11:54 GMT 12
Hi any chance you could send me his details to. I would like to put the squadron decals back on the Devon, I had a fellow in Auckland who was going to do it.... That was 7 months ago and he won't reply to my emails. Cheers Mit I will send you the email details on a PM. Regards Planewriting (Peter) |
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