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Post by Dave Homewood on Jul 14, 2017 18:52:20 GMT 12
A topdressing Avenger day dream.....   Well I know that one of the target towing Avengers, in the overall yellow and black striped scheme, was sitting next to the James Aviation hangar in 1955 when the first Fletcher arrived in its box. I wonder if Ossie had any ideas of using it? |
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Post by emron on Jul 15, 2017 14:29:29 GMT 12
Regardless of how the owners choose to display NZ2539 I still think it good conservation practice to give it a wash with a soft brush and take quality photos of all surfaces before starting on the restoration. Although very rough around the edges, what remains is a bit of a time capsule from the day it was removed from the playground, graffiti and all. I understood it was the Jacobs' original intention to preserve it “as was” but 35+ years further exposure to the elements has put paid to that ambition. But there may still be the untouched remnants of it's final paint scheme (and underlying coats) hidden under the lichen and dirt. If any of the paint edge lines are found then that would help for an accurate drawing if that scheme is ever duplicated. All these features could be easily obliterated by harsher cleanng methods like waterblasting, sanding and scotchbrite which hopefully have not yet been used.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jul 16, 2017 18:49:21 GMT 12
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Post by emron on Jul 16, 2017 20:02:41 GMT 12
The fuselage still looks OK, but that centresection is even worse than I last saw it. When MOTAT was faced with repairing the serious corrosion there (but not as bad as this) on NZ2527 we contemplated separating the wing out. Instead we struggled on and did repairs in place. I doubt if that can be avoided on 2539. All that structure is .090" and .125" and are the wing or landing gear attachment points still sound? There must also by now be considerable concealed corrosion in the fuel tank bays.
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Post by davidd on Jul 17, 2017 10:23:09 GMT 12
I can hear the munching noises from Christchurch! Reminds me of Gerald Rhodes' Lodestar at Wanaka many years ago (and that was allegedly a flyer!)
David C
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Post by kiwi285 on Jul 17, 2017 10:29:34 GMT 12
I had been warned by the first crew that went to look at the aircraft and in my minds eye I could picture the position but is wasn't as bad as I had expected. The initial move when extremely well as we arrived about 9.30 and by about 11.20 the aircraft was sitting up beside the fence awaiting transport. The trip down to Classic Flyers went well and the photos posted by several others show its arrival and unloading.
Last Wednesday we took to the rear end of the fuse with a domestic water blaster and removed the lichen and dirt. The metal on the rear fuse was in surprisingly good condition with little corrosion in evidence. Unfortunately the same can't be said for the stub wing - the corrosion there is really bad. The brains trust will no doubt have thoughts on how we can proceed with that section (I don't know). Again the interior of the fuse from the cockpit back is in surprisingly good condition apart from the concrete in the floor behind the bomb bay. That will be a mission. Any one know of a good source of CRC to try and free up all these corroded fastenings - we will need gallons.
As the lichen came off we could see the roundels and some of the paint. The aircraft has signs of the yellow paint from its TT time. It also has several roundels on it. The RNZAF ones are where we would expect them and we will be able to measure them and get their positioning. There are USN stars and bars further back and there is a red centre.
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Post by agalbraith on Jul 17, 2017 10:57:10 GMT 12
Thanks for the update guys!
As you can see, there is a lot of interest in this old bird, and we appreciate the updates you give us. Centre section aside, she looks in really quite good shape considering!
Thanks again!
Anthony
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Post by kiwi285 on Jul 17, 2017 11:08:26 GMT 12
The red centre to the USN star had me pondering though. I seem to remember that the red centre to the US markings was done away with in mid 1942. Someone said that they though that it might have been put there as the aircraft was being sent to the Fleet Air Arm. I believe that this aircraft came direct from the USN in the Pacific to NZ so that doesn't seem to fit. I am not an expert in markings so I will leave this to some one more knowledgeable than me.
I will try and photograph the aircraft as we progress so that we can record any unusual markings or features as we go along.
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Post by agalbraith on Jul 17, 2017 11:50:51 GMT 12
Thanks very much! Sorry cant help with the red centre, but I believe there have been red centres observed on relics up in the Islands that supposedly not ment to be there.
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Post by TS on Jul 17, 2017 15:52:47 GMT 12
The RNZAF ones are where we would expect them and we will be able to measure them and get their positioning. There are USN stars and bars further back and there is a red centre. The U.S. military chose to remove the red dot from the centre of its aircraft markings after going to war with Japan. It was feared the symbol looked too similar to the enemy’s insignia. |
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Post by davidd on Jul 17, 2017 17:22:29 GMT 12
As all the RNZAF's TBF's came straight to New Zealand from the factory, they had seen no operational US Navy service in the Pacific, although they would have been flown by US Navy or civilian personnel from the factory to the designated port of loading in the USA. One of our TBFs was in fact destroyed in an accident whilst being ferried to its port of loading in late 1943 or early 1944, although I understand that the pilot was not hurt. There are photographs of RNZAF TBFs at Hobsonville during assembly which appear to show them it what appears to be FAA insignia, with "C" type roundels, and this is probably the source of speculation that these aircraft had Royal Navy serial numbers, but such seems not to be the case.
David D
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Post by planewriting on Jul 18, 2017 12:54:50 GMT 12
Nah...paint her as a US firebomber, turret has already gone! The original turret has gone yes - but I'm told on good authority we do have another one. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2017 14:14:18 GMT 12
It's fantastic and really quite heartwarming to see the ghosts of old markings appear on the Avenger. What a thrill for the team, and a boon to the researchers! Thanks to Mike for passing on his recovery photos to Dave to be posted and enjoyed.
TRB - that's about what I expected an in-service CBO to look like, bravo!
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Post by baz62 on Jul 18, 2017 16:41:45 GMT 12
Looks like that centre section will have to come off to have a good look at it and see if it is repairable. If not see if one can be sourced from the US or Canada as the later TBM-3 should be nearly identical.
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Post by jp on Jul 18, 2017 17:47:11 GMT 12
Noticed that none of the Avengers in NZ have the lower/ventral gun position re-installed.... why not?
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Post by agalbraith on Jul 18, 2017 23:14:51 GMT 12
If I understand your question correctly, I believe it is because they (all survivors) went through TTug conversion and had this area modified for the drogue to exit. Has '05' had hers fixed....cant remember
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Post by kiwi285 on Jul 19, 2017 7:21:27 GMT 12
05 has a flat Perspex panel in the lower rear gun port. I don't think I have ever seen the interior fittings or even photos showing the make up the lower gun port. Certainly nothing showing in rge rear fuse of 05 and I don't remember anything standing out in that area od 39 either.
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Post by kiwi285 on Jul 19, 2017 17:14:58 GMT 12
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Post by agalbraith on Jul 19, 2017 21:14:57 GMT 12
Well done chaps! She is already looking much better. Thanks for the update
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Post by shorty on Jul 19, 2017 21:31:12 GMT 12
As the markings are pre metric it may be easier to match them if they were measured in proper imperial units?
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