mike123
Leading Aircraftman
Posts: 7 
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Post by mike123 on Nov 15, 2017 12:46:34 GMT 12
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Dinga
Warrant Officer
Posts: 34
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Post by Dinga on Nov 15, 2017 13:21:52 GMT 12
Yes well done on saving the whale .Not to sure what climate change has to do with defence white papers.Apparently behind the scenes defence is already planning for this.Where do they find these weirdo reporters.
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Post by flyinkiwi on Nov 15, 2017 13:31:37 GMT 12
At last a Greenie who has tweaked to the facts that climate change will bring a change in the strategic order of things and that the NZDF doesn't just sit round all day polishing their weapons. I think she should have qualified her remarks about the investment figure. Sure NZ$20 billion is a lot but I bet the Govt will spend ten times that on benefits including Superannuation over the same period. It's all relative.
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Post by madmac on Nov 15, 2017 15:15:39 GMT 12
Sure NZ$20 billion is a lot but I bet the Govt will spend ten times that on benefits including Superannuation over the same period. It's all relative. Best described as 3% of the social welfare budget over the same period. The bit that gets me is the commonly held belief that we simply can't afford defend our selves & what that actually means in big picture terms. www.treasury.govt.nz/government/expenditure |
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Post by typerated on Nov 15, 2017 17:39:26 GMT 12
I think she is right on the money. Climate change will be front and centre from now on.
It already is in certain parts of the world.
It looks like the human race is bent on environmental self destruction. Political pressures are also building.
NZ spending (a little) more on defence is really neither here nor there.
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Dinga
Warrant Officer
Posts: 34
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Post by Dinga on Nov 15, 2017 17:43:50 GMT 12
At last a Greenie who has tweaked to the facts that climate change will bring a change in the strategic order of things and that the NZDF doesn't just sit round all day polishing their weapons. I think she should have qualified her remarks about the investment figure. Sure NZ$20 billion is a lot but I bet the Govt will spend ten times that on benefits including Superannuation over the same period. It's all relative. Can you explain what you mean by a change in the strategic order of things.Are you seriously saying the mod has waisted tax payers money on this. |
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Post by flyinkiwi on Nov 16, 2017 7:56:36 GMT 12
I meant that climate change will change the distribution of vital resources world wide. An extreme example would be imagining if New Zealand became the only supplier of fresh water in the South Pacific and how that would change how we are viewed in a strategic sense. And I've read my post a dozen times and I cannot fathom where I make the claim the Govt is "waisting (sic) tax payers money". I was remarking that the author made no attempt to qualify her opinion about Defense spending and gave a comparison to give the figure some context within the nominal Govt spending structure. My personal position is that the NZDF is chronically underfunded and we just need the rest of the country's population to realize it. I don't think I am alone in that opinion.
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Dinga
Warrant Officer
Posts: 34
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Post by Dinga on Nov 16, 2017 11:24:43 GMT 12
I meant that climate change will change the distribution of vital resources world wide. An extreme example would be imagining if New Zealand became the only supplier of fresh water in the South Pacific and how that would change how we are viewed in a strategic sense. And I've read my post a dozen times and I cannot fathom where I make the claim the Govt is "waisting (sic) tax payers money". I was remarking that the author made no attempt to qualify her opinion about Defense spending and gave a comparison to give the figure some context within the nominal Govt spending structure. My personal position is that the NZDF is chronically underfunded and we just need the rest of the country's population to realize it. I don't think I am alone in that opinion. No sorry I thought you were saying MOD was actually spending money on climate change research. Just for the record I am not a Climate change believer.I realise all the media is trying to convince everyone it exists by showing polar bears swimming helplessly and iceburgs breaking appart.I am not convinced by this brain washing. The sea level is not rising and the pacific Islands are not under any threat from rising sea levels. This nonsence has been going on for 30 years or more and the sea level has not risen at all in this time. Sure we have got problems with pollution and I am concerned by them .Blaming every forest fire and every weather event on global warming is not accurate science. It is mass hysteria and plenty of people are been taken in .I choose not to be. So just because you are convinced it exists, do not expect that everyone else is going to just sit there and accept what you say. Please do not take this as a personel attack on yourself, because it is not meant to be.It is just one mans opinion. |
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Post by baronbeeza on Nov 16, 2017 14:56:48 GMT 12
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Post by typerated on Nov 16, 2017 18:38:01 GMT 12
I meant that climate change will change the distribution of vital resources world wide. An extreme example would be imagining if New Zealand became the only supplier of fresh water in the South Pacific and how that would change how we are viewed in a strategic sense. And I've read my post a dozen times and I cannot fathom where I make the claim the Govt is "waisting (sic) tax payers money". I was remarking that the author made no attempt to qualify her opinion about Defense spending and gave a comparison to give the figure some context within the nominal Govt spending structure. My personal position is that the NZDF is chronically underfunded and we just need the rest of the country's population to realize it. I don't think I am alone in that opinion. No sorry I thought you were saying MOD was actually spending money on climate change research. Just for the record I am not a Climate change believer.I realise all the media is trying to convince everyone it exists by showing polar bears swimming helplessly and iceburgs breaking appart.I am not convinced by this brain washing. The sea level is not rising and the pacific Islands are not under any threat from rising sea levels. This nonsence has been going on for 30 years or more and the sea level has not risen at all in this time. Sure we have got problems with pollution and I am concerned by them .Blaming every forest fire and every weather event on global warming is not accurate science. It is mass hysteria and plenty of people are been taken in .I choose not to be. So just because you are convinced it exists, do not expect that everyone else is going to just sit there and accept what you say. Please do not take this as a personel attack on yourself, because it is not meant to be.It is just one mans opinion. If you study the science you will find that sea levels round the world have risen nearly a foot since the 1800s and are going up at about 3.5 mm per year. You will also find that " Blaming every forest fire and every weather event on global warming" is not what science does! - I know! I worked for many years for NIWA. You are in a very small (and not distinguished) minority - You are the one that is being taken in. |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 16, 2017 19:19:44 GMT 12
With sea level increasing the money will have to be diverted away from Army and towards maritime aerial surveillance and the Navy, as there will be more sea and less land to cover. Only a few feet more, but....
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Dinga
Warrant Officer
Posts: 34
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Post by Dinga on Nov 16, 2017 19:46:32 GMT 12
No sorry I thought you were saying MOD was actually spending money on climate change research. Just for the record I am not a Climate change believer.I realise all the media is trying to convince everyone it exists by showing polar bears swimming helplessly and iceburgs breaking appart.I am not convinced by this brain washing. The sea level is not rising and the pacific Islands are not under any threat from rising sea levels. This nonsence has been going on for 30 years or more and the sea level has not risen at all in this time. Sure we have got problems with pollution and I am concerned by them .Blaming every forest fire and every weather event on global warming is not accurate science. It is mass hysteria and plenty of people are been taken in .I choose not to be. So just because you are convinced it exists, do not expect that everyone else is going to just sit there and accept what you say. Please do not take this as a personel attack on yourself, because it is not meant to be.It is just one mans opinion. If you study the science you will find that sea levels round the world have risen nearly a foot since the 1800s and are going up at about 3.5 mm per year. You will also find that " Blaming every forest fire and every weather event on global warming" is not what science does! - I know! I worked for many years for NIWA. You are in a very small (and not distinguished) minority - You are the one that is being taken in. Weather distinquished or not has nothing what so ever to do with the future of our planet, perhaps you think you are distinquished because of your past involvement with NIWA. The sea has not risen as I said in the last 30 years or indeed the last 100.The common sense approach tells me it has not. I live by the sea, I am at the beach nearly every day of my life. The tide mark has not changed in 59 years I have walked on this coast. No one has taken me in, I make my own judgements. I just stated my honest opinion.I think you my friend can not handle someone challenging what you believe.Being in a minority also has never meant you are wrong, although you seem to take as some kind of sign .Your logic is flawed in that regard also . |
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Post by 30sqnatc on Nov 16, 2017 20:13:53 GMT 12
With sea level increasing the money will have to be diverted away from Army and towards maritime aerial surveillance and the Navy, as there will be more sea and less land to cover. Only a few feet more, but.... I don't follow you logic. The size of sea is not the issue, the control of the decreasing land mass where the majority of people live and fresh water is found is. |
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Post by baronbeeza on Nov 16, 2017 20:52:21 GMT 12
There is much we are not being told about the issue of climate change/rising sea level. There are indeed two sides to it and it depends very much what you read, and where. TV One news is just so predictable that it is now unwatchable.
I have worked in the Pacific and in places like Tarawa, Kiribati which the media like to use as an example.
What they have not said is that Betio is just one island in a whole chain of a country that extends 2000Km in total across the equator.
Betio was over-populated 20 years ago.... it now has almost twice that population living on an area a little larger than the wartime airfield.
The problem really is one of population density. There is plenty of land, - it is just that they all want to live in the same place for some reason.
I guess the same logic that sees people complain about house prices and transport issues in Auckland.
It is all agenda driven. If you choose to follow MSM then you may worry yourself to death... in the meantime the sea level has risen 2mm during your lifetime. (It actually does vary in different parts of the world). Have you seen anything like the tidal variation in Guernsey?
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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 16, 2017 21:07:29 GMT 12
With sea level increasing the money will have to be diverted away from Army and towards maritime aerial surveillance and the Navy, as there will be more sea and less land to cover. Only a few feet more, but.... I don't follow you logic. The size of sea is not the issue, the control of the decreasing land mass where the majority of people live and fresh water is found is. It was not meant to be logical. |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 16, 2017 21:15:05 GMT 12
So if the commodity of the future is clean fresh water that explains why politicians and activists have been spreading all these stories about our rivers all being polluted by cows. It's a defence policy to keep foreigners from invading.
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Post by 30sqnatc on Nov 17, 2017 17:42:23 GMT 12
I don't follow you logic. The size of sea is not the issue, the control of the decreasing land mass where the majority of people live and fresh water is found is. It was not meant to be logical. Successfully sucked me in  |
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Post by Peter Lewis on Nov 17, 2017 18:54:23 GMT 12
Keep the conversation civil, guys.
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Post by typerated on Nov 17, 2017 20:51:35 GMT 12
If you study the science you will find that sea levels round the world have risen nearly a foot since the 1800s and are going up at about 3.5 mm per year. You will also find that " Blaming every forest fire and every weather event on global warming" is not what science does! - I know! I worked for many years for NIWA. You are in a very small (and not distinguished) minority - You are the one that is being taken in. Weather distinquished or not has nothing what so ever to do with the future of our planet, perhaps you think you are distinquished because of your past involvement with NIWA. The sea has not risen as I said in the last 30 years or indeed the last 100.The common sense approach tells me it has not. I live by the sea, I am at the beach nearly every day of my life. The tide mark has not changed in 59 years I have walked on this coast. No one has taken me in, I make my own judgements. I just stated my honest opinion.I think you my friend can not handle someone challenging what you believe.Being in a minority also has never meant you are wrong, although you seem to take as some kind of sign .Your logic is flawed in that regard also . Tide gauges, laser and radar ranging from satellite and the GRACE gravity sensing satellites have cost billions of dollars and all (pretty much) agree. Some of the finest minds on the planet study this. This is some of the NZ data www.stats.govt.nz/browse_for_stats/environment/environmental-reporting-series/environmental-indicators/Home/Marine/coastal-sea-level-rise.aspxShame they are all wrong though - some bloke in New Zealand says so. Out of interest is science barking up the wrong tree with the temperature changes of climate change too? |
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Post by 30sqnatc on Nov 18, 2017 19:05:00 GMT 12
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