Beechcraft Super King Air 350

[Dave Homewood]

May 8, 2018 19:25:50 GMT 12 camtech said:

All very quiet re these aircraft - any updates?

How many arrived in the end?

[camtech]

Don't know - only aware of VH-ZPE. Not aware of any public announcement.
Need to get our spies into action.

[jeffref]

Try the Russian Embassy. Simon says they have lots of spies!

[exkiwiforces]

Found this on the scoop website, under Parliament Oral Questions for 11 May 2018

6. DARROCH BALL to the Minister of Defence: What progress, if any, has been made regarding aircrew training capability for the Royal New Zealand Air Force?

So we might get answer during today’s question time from old Ronnie?

[kiwithrottlejockey]

It's the 10th May today.

However, Parliament does not usually sit on a Friday (SEE HERE), so either the date (11 May 2018) is wrong, or they are holding a special sitting tomorrow.

[ErrolC]

May 10, 2018 14:32:39 GMT 12 kiwithrottlejockey said:

It's the 10th May today.

However, Parliament does not usually sit on a Friday (SEE HERE), so either the date (11 May 2018) is wrong, or they are holding a special sitting tomorrow.

The Question is on the list for today
www.parliament.nz/en/pb/order-paper-questions/list-of-oral-questions/oral-questions-10-may-2018/

Answer should be here in due course
www.parliament.nz/en/pb/hansard-debates/rhr/combined/HansD_20180510_20180510

[mike123]

Watch Ron Mark announcing it today in parliament at Question time:
www.parliament.nz/en/watch-parliament/ondemand?itemId=200248

[kiwithrottlejockey]

I betcha he wrote those “patsy questions” himself.

I'm a bit disappointed in Ron Mark indulging in that sort of wankery which one tends to expect from Labour and Nats cabinet ministers.

[ErrolC]

6. DARROCH BALL (NZ First) to the Minister of Defence: What progress, if any, has been made regarding aircrew training capability for the Royal New Zealand Air Force?

Hon RON MARK (Minister of Defence): Thank you, Mr Speaker—great question. Today, I announced that the first of four leased Beechcraft King Air 350 (KA350) aircraft has been certified for use by the Royal New Zealand Air Force (RNZAF), marking a step-change in the future of aircrew training. The new aircraft will replace the Beechcraft King Air 200 fleet, which provides RNZAF multi-engine pilot training and light airlift drop operation, such as transport and humanitarian assistance and disaster relief. The new fleet will also enable specialist crew training, such as navigation, flight training, mission management, and communications to be brought back to New Zealand after more than two decades of being based in Australia. In an additional boost to air force capability, two of the aircraft will be configured to assist in the important maritime surveillance task across our exclusive economic zone. A contract worth over $10 million per year for 10 years will be delivered with no increase in operating costs for the Defence Force. The remaining three aircraft will be delivered progressively over the next year.

Darroch Ball: What is the benefit to the air force of having the KA350 capability in New Zealand?

Hon RON MARK: Great question.

Hon Mark Mitchell: You can get to the Wairarapa quicker.

Hon RON MARK: We'll get to that. We'll get to that shortly, I'm sure. Aircrew training of New Zealand defence personnel has taken place in Australia since 1993, where the students were based for one year at a time. This brings that training home by having the KA350 capability in New Zealand. New Zealand Defence Force personnel required to undergo aircrew training will no longer need to travel offshore for long periods. This reduces the inefficiencies related to remote training both in relation to timing and cost. Additionally, it will mean that the extensive bridging training will no longer be required, and it will provide flexibility by having crew ready and accessible for other tasks here at home in New Zealand.

Darroch Ball: How does the lease of four KA350s affect local industry and jobs in New Zealand?

Hon RON MARK: More good news. The prime contractor for the KA350s is Hawker Pacific New Zealand Ltd. With 18 full-time employees working at Ōhākea, Hawker Pacific employ local and New Zealand – wide businesses to provide services and equipment—

Hon Gerry Brownlee: How're we going with the P-8s?

Hon RON MARK: —including flight interiors—put the question—national aircraft interiors, trade tools, Wormald, and NZ Safety. Mr Mitchell might remember that the lease also supports Marops, an award-winning and rapidly growing Auckland-based software company, which is working alongside of Hawker Pacific to integrate the training mission systems with the aircraft and the sensor suite.

Hon Gerry Brownlee: P-8s are dead.

Hon RON MARK: Ask the question.

Darroch Ball: How successful have recent pilot training capabilities projects been overall?

Hon RON MARK: Another great question. The arrival of the KA350s completes the full revitalisation of pilot and aircrew training activities for the New Zealand Air Force, bringing them—

Hon Gerry Brownlee: Plenty of pilots, no planes.

Hon RON MARK: —right up to date to the highest performance in safety standards, Mr Brownlee. Basic training is now undertaken on the 11 new Beechcraft T-6C Texan aircraft, supported by simulators and other advanced ground-based training systems, which have also, thankfully, and spectacularly allowed the regeneration of our air force aerobatic team the Black Falcons. Fantastic news, isn't it?

[Dave Homewood]

Leased?? What are they thinking.

[delticman]

May 10, 2018 16:19:32 GMT 12 ErrolC said:

6. DARROCH BALL (NZ First) to the Minister of Defence: What progress, if any, has been made regarding aircrew training capability for the Royal New Zealand Air Force?

Hon RON MARK (Minister of Defence): Thank you, Mr Speaker—great question. Today, I announced that the first of four leased Beechcraft King Air 350 (KA350) aircraft has been certified for use by the Royal New Zealand Air Force (RNZAF), marking a step-change in the future of aircrew training. The new aircraft will replace the Beechcraft King Air 200 fleet, which provides RNZAF multi-engine pilot training and light airlift drop operation, such as transport and humanitarian assistance and disaster relief. The new fleet will also enable specialist crew training, such as navigation, flight training, mission management, and communications to be brought back to New Zealand after more than two decades of being based in Australia. In an additional boost to air force capability, two of the aircraft will be configured to assist in the important maritime surveillance task across our exclusive economic zone. A contract worth over $10 million per year for 10 years will be delivered with no increase in operating costs for the Defence Force. The remaining three aircraft will be delivered progressively over the next year.

Darroch Ball: What is the benefit to the air force of having the KA350 capability in New Zealand?

Hon RON MARK: Great question.

Hon Mark Mitchell: You can get to the Wairarapa quicker.

Hon RON MARK: We'll get to that. We'll get to that shortly, I'm sure. Aircrew training of New Zealand defence personnel has taken place in Australia since 1993, where the students were based for one year at a time. This brings that training home by having the KA350 capability in New Zealand. New Zealand Defence Force personnel required to undergo aircrew training will no longer need to travel offshore for long periods. This reduces the inefficiencies related to remote training both in relation to timing and cost. Additionally, it will mean that the extensive bridging training will no longer be required, and it will provide flexibility by having crew ready and accessible for other tasks here at home in New Zealand.

Darroch Ball: How does the lease of four KA350s affect local industry and jobs in New Zealand?

Hon RON MARK: More good news. The prime contractor for the KA350s is Hawker Pacific New Zealand Ltd. With 18 full-time employees working at Ōhākea, Hawker Pacific employ local and New Zealand – wide businesses to provide services and equipment—

Hon Gerry Brownlee: How're we going with the P-8s?

Hon RON MARK: —including flight interiors—put the question—national aircraft interiors, trade tools, Wormald, and NZ Safety. Mr Mitchell might remember that the lease also supports Marops, an award-winning and rapidly growing Auckland-based software company, which is working alongside of Hawker Pacific to integrate the training mission systems with the aircraft and the sensor suite.

Hon Gerry Brownlee: P-8s are dead.

Hon RON MARK: Ask the question.

Darroch Ball: How successful have recent pilot training capabilities projects been overall?

Hon RON MARK: Another great question. The arrival of the KA350s completes the full revitalisation of pilot and aircrew training activities for the New Zealand Air Force, bringing them—

Hon Gerry Brownlee: Plenty of pilots, no planes.

Hon RON MARK: —right up to date to the highest performance in safety standards, Mr Brownlee. Basic training is now undertaken on the 11 new Beechcraft T-6C Texan aircraft, supported by simulators and other advanced ground-based training systems, which have also, thankfully, and spectacularly allowed the regeneration of our air force aerobatic team the Black Falcons. Fantastic news, isn't it?

[delticman]

Well the others were leased. Lease is up or new equipment needed, you just lease some newer aircraft.

[kiwithrottlejockey]

Did the RNZAF lease the CT-4 Airtrainers?

[Dave Homewood]

No, but the issue with the lease is it costs more than buying the planes after a reasonably short amount of years. They were supposed to be buying these ones.

[delticman]

May 10, 2018 18:54:00 GMT 12 kiwithrottlejockey said:

Did the RNZAF lease the CT-4 Airtrainers?

Yes, the CT4E's.

[delticman]

May 10, 2018 18:54:35 GMT 12 Dave Homewood said:

No, but the issue with the lease is it costs more than buying the planes after a reasonably short amount of years. They were supposed to be buying these ones.

Did that come from an official source. It's not just a New Zealand thing, other countries do it as well.

[Dave Homewood]

It was announced by the Defence Minister Wayne Mapp in 2011 that a programme was in place to purchase two new trainer types, to replace the leased Airtrainers and King Airs.

[Dave Homewood]

Here's a thread that might remind some of you:

rnzaf.proboards.com/thread/13594/rnzaf-king-air-replacment

[gibbo]

May 10, 2018 16:58:14 GMT 12 Dave Homewood said:

Leased?? What are they thinking.

The lease vs own argument is likely to be a fairly complex consideration rather than just $$$ but many larger airforces lease trainers now - am I right in thinking of the 5-eyes partners NZ is the only one to own their fleet in the T6 / PC21 capability 'space'?  Many of the other also use civvy instructors do they not?  I'm all for full ownership & maintenance but possibly lease allows rather more pressure to be applied (on the supplier vs scarce in-house engineers) to provide greater 'available' hours to enable a small fleet to do more!?! 

I am a little surprised that with the ACTC role coming on board that 4 is considered enough but one beauty of lease arrangements is if more are required then the effort required to add more is fairly straight forward - eg. when 42sqn got their first B200 fleet (NZ1881-83) they later got 2 more (84 & 85).

afterthought: USAF & USN do 'own' AFAIK.

[Naki]

May 10, 2018 22:22:44 GMT 12 gibbo said:

May 10, 2018 16:58:14 GMT 12 Dave Homewood said:

Leased?? What are they thinking.

am I right in thinking of the 5-eyes partners NZ is the only one to own their fleet in the T6 / PC21 capability 'space'?.

Nope, the RAAF own their PC-21/7s and the USAF/N own their T-6s