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Post by Naki on Jun 22, 2011 11:43:02 GMT 12
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Post by pea032 on Jun 22, 2011 12:32:15 GMT 12
slight problem, mapps ruled it out,
"Mapp says the two aircraft types in contention are the Airbus Military CN-235 and the Bombardier Dash 8 Q300. The Alenia Aeronautica ATR 42MP has not been considered, he adds."
But on the note of their replacement, does anyone know if the idea is still a mix of advanced trainer and a couple of transport/mpa? or will they just end up renewing the king air lease?
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Post by Chris F on Jun 22, 2011 12:37:00 GMT 12
Someone said on this forum that the Q300 is very hard to obtain in the secondhand market and are no longer in production...replaced by the bigger Q400.
Who know's if this replacement is going ahead in the current cut cut cut climate.
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Post by skyhawkdon on Jun 22, 2011 15:06:38 GMT 12
Last I heard it was still happening but isn't happening as fast as anyone wants! The current King Air lease will have to be rolled over again (and probably again in 12 months time!).
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Post by beagle on Jun 22, 2011 22:04:40 GMT 12
I am pretty sure we had 3 aircraft at Wigram in my day that were perfect for this role.
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Post by Calum on Jun 24, 2011 13:33:12 GMT 12
New Zealand To Buy Military Trainers
6 June 2011
Aerospace Daily & Defense Report
(c) 2011 McGraw-Hill, Inc.
New Zealand will be enhancing its fixed-wing training capability with two new types of aircraft, and is hoping one of them can be used for light maritime surveillance.
The country had earlier been looking at light transport aircraft, such as the EADS CASA CN-235, thinking it would take on the light maritime surveillance role. But New Zealand’s defense minister, Wayne Mapp, tells Aviation Week on the sidelines of the Shangri-La Dialogue in Singapore that trainers are a higher priority.
New Zealand has Pacific Aerospace CT-4Es as its basic trainers. But once trainees finish basic training, they need to fly a more advanced single-engine aircraft, Mapp says. He says the types the country is likely to consider for the advanced trainer are the Hawker Beechcraft T-6 Texan II, Pilatus PC-9 and the Korea Aerospace Industries KT-1. It plans to order 6-7 aircraft to be delivered in 2013-14, he says.
Small Civil Aircraft
Mapp says that for multi-engine training, New Zealand has been using the Hawker Beechcraft B200. But this is a small civil aircraft, so there are certain things this trainer is unable to do when compared to military trainers, he says. Mapp says New Zealand has been considering buying 3-5 Beech 350s to replace the B200s, but he stresses no final decision has been made. Mapp says New Zealand wants the new twin-engine trainer to be used for other tasks as well, such as navigation training, VIP transport and light maritime surveillance. “A number of nations use Beech 350s for a range of roles,” he adds. He says it would be more cost-effective for New Zealand to use its multi-engine trainers for maritime surveillance rather than larger aircraft such as the CN-235. Mapp also says another factor working against the CN-235 is that defense partner Australia has no CN-235s.
In a separate development, New Zealand wants to have a formal agreement with Australia whereby New Zealand gets a set number of hours each year on one of the Royal Australian Air Force C-17s, Mapp says.
New Zealand also has a longer-term requirement to replace its Lockheed C-130s and P-3s. New Zealand’s C-130s are some of the oldest operating today. The government has stated on numerous occasions that the C-130s will be replaced by 2020 and the P-3s by 2025. But Mapp says the country “could get a few more years out of the aircraft” because upgrades were delayed considerably.
Nine NH90s On Order
Regarding helicopters, New Zealand reportedly has nine NH Industries NH90s on order. Mapp says the first two will be delivered to New Zealand later this year. It also ordered five AgustaWestland AW109s, four of which have been delivered. The AW109s replace Bell 47 Siouxs, which are to be phased out within 12 months, Mapp says. The NH90s replace Bell UH-1s, which will be phased out in 2013, he says.
New Zealand has experienced two devastating earthquakes in the past year, and the resulting financial costs have pushed the government’s budget into a large deficit. The government has forecast that the budget will only return to surplus in fiscal 2014-15.
“With the financial situation being more persistent and long-lasting, we’re having to take a more rigorous [approach], and are looking to deliver the white paper [objectives] in a more fiscally constrained way,” Mapp says. He says the ministry will be scrutinizing more than just the up-front cost of each acquisition, but also the life-cycle cost.
New Zealand Defense Force Lt. Col. James Dryburgh told delegates at a conference in Singapore on May 24 that if defense contractors can demonstrate that new equipment will save money over existing equipment, then the procurement has a better chance of being approved.
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Post by Tony on Jun 24, 2011 14:03:49 GMT 12
"New Zealand Defense Force Lt. Col. James Dryburgh told delegates at a conference in Singapore on May 24 that if defense contractors can demonstrate that new equipment will save money over existing equipment, then the procurement has a better chance of being approved."
Duh !!!!
Oops sorry - my cynicism is showing
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Post by pjw4118 on Jun 24, 2011 15:40:37 GMT 12
At an NZBCA function last year AVM Lintott that the current twins werent hard enough to fly
and were a poor lead in to Orions and Herc. flying.
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Post by Naki on Jun 24, 2011 15:44:51 GMT 12
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Post by pea032 on Jun 24, 2011 15:45:32 GMT 12
buying advanced single engine trainers....they really dont want they macchis back do they
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Post by Chris F on Jun 24, 2011 16:03:50 GMT 12
Most likely NZ will go with what Australia do in the advanced trainer role,part of a tag on deal.
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Post by Calum on Jun 26, 2011 10:12:08 GMT 12
buying advanced single engine trainers....they really dont want they macchis back do they Well you can't do BFT in a Macchi. And a single fleet of modern turboprops has to be cheaper than a mixed fleet including a jet trainer for an air arm without a jet combat aircraft. Personally I think the RNZAF should get out of the basic flight training game and piggy back off a larger air force |
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Post by pea032 on Jun 26, 2011 10:27:35 GMT 12
well I would tend to agree with you, but when you have already spent $300 odd mil buying them and are going to get stuff all for selling them I would have thought it might aleast be the most logical option to keep using them..... but aparently not.
as for getting out of the basic training game, might aswel get out of the whole air force game the way things are going
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Post by kiwiscanfly on Jun 26, 2011 16:47:16 GMT 12
have they not considered the Super Tucano???
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Post by yogi on Jun 26, 2011 18:15:38 GMT 12
how could it possibly be cheaper to buy a new fleet of aircraft than use the macchis that they already have what with spares we already own not to mention cannabilizing parts since they only need half a dozen to actually fly.
the whole things just a completely retarded cluster *u**
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jun 26, 2011 18:59:15 GMT 12
You can't fly VIP's in a Macchi.
The RNZAF needs utility aircraft not 'clapped out' jet fighter trainers.
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Post by vs on Jun 26, 2011 19:46:12 GMT 12
I think the problem with the 339 is the engine, I believe we were the only operator of the 339 with that engine and now that Rolls Royce have decided not to support it anymore, the aeroplanes are now not worth anything
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Post by yogi on Jun 26, 2011 22:11:41 GMT 12
sorry dave I was referring to the trainers.
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Post by Chris F on Jun 27, 2011 11:28:02 GMT 12
Kiwiscanfly if you read Wayne Mapps comments to Aviation week about factors working against the CN-235 is that Defence Partner Australia does not operate them.
It would be a strong bet that what ever Australia buys as and advanced trainer New Zealand will tag onto.
Time will tell.
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Post by kiwiscanfly on Jun 27, 2011 11:59:14 GMT 12
I was asking why the Super Tucano was not considered or listed for an advanced trainer......... not the CN-235. And to be honest to give a reason like "Because Australia is not using it we won't" is a little sad. If it fit's the needs of the RNZAF and fills the capability gap highlighted in the white paper why not? Oh and just another point Australia is not buying aircraft for the advanced training role as such. Last I heard they were going to buy 6-8 Texans with weapons to train their Army's JTAC's, if we tagged onto this buy it would be a different story to the CN-235 as this aircraft would fit our needs as far as I can see as a spectator.
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