RAF has more Group Captains than combat jets!

[corsair67]

Revealed: RAF has more Group Captains than combat jets
IAN BRUCE, Defence Correspondent
December 14 2006.


The RAF has more than 70 Squadron-Leaders for every one of its frontline squadrons and more Group-Captains than combat jets, The Herald can reveal.

The news comes as the air force is in the middle of slashing its numbers from 48,000 to 41,000 by 2008 under cuts imposed because of Treasury pressure on the defence budget.

The 2004 defence review has cost the RAF a quarter of its fighting squadrons and a sixth of its manpower.

When the mass redundancy of mainly ground-based servicemen and women is complete, there will be one officer for every 2.5 "other ranks".
According to the RAF's internal appointments register, there are already 11,115 officers between the rank of Group Captain and Flying Officer.

This includes 414 Group Captains, 1341 Wing Commanders, 2337 Squadron Leaders and 3263 Flight Lieutenants and Flying Officers.
Since the 1950s, RAF rules have meant that all pilots and navigators must be commissioned officer rank, as opposed to the Army Air Corps, where sergeants regularly fly attack and transport helicopters.

The RAF's own website lists only 17 frontline strike, ground attack, low-level reconnaissance and fighter squadrons.

These have a notional strength of 354 combat aircraft, although anything up to 30% or more are out of action for maintenance or awaiting spares at any given time.

A number of these jets are also held as "attrition reserves" to replace aircraft lost in combat or in accidents.

Of the 3762 RAF "flying branch" posts available, 1166 involve non-flying duties and there are only 220 strike and ground attack crews in uniform, with about 170 more in training.

There were 560 trained RAF helicopter pilots at the end end of April this year, according to MoD figures given in a parliamentary answer – more than twice the total of fast-jet pilots.

On paper, the UK has 354 combat aircraft, including Typhoon Eurofighters, Tornados and Harriers. Saudi Arabia has 363 and Israel 402.

The UK has meanwhile ordered 232 Typhoon Eurofighters and is negotiating the purchase of 150 US-designed Joint Strike Fighters. These aircraft are meant to replace the ageing Harrier fleet and some of the Tornados.

An officer who contacted The Herald said yesterday: "It would be difficult to explain to the taxpayer why we have more Group Captains than frontline jets.

A Group Captain is supposed to command a station or airbase, but there are only a handful of those.

"The Squadron-Leader situation is even more ludicrous. There are more than 70 of them for every operational squadron. The whole organisation's crazily top-heavy.

"The RAF seems to have gone down the career-structure and promotional road at the cost of common sense and the frontline.

"People are leaving in droves and we're already feeling the pinch in the support branches. Without experienced and dedicated ground crews, the shiny jets don't fly."

The RAF insists that the number of its personnel in senior ranks does not reflect a "top-heavy management structure."

A spokesman said: "We are officer-heavy as a force because our aircrew are exclusively of officer rank. That causes a distortion in the ratios.

According to the Ministry of Defence: "The RAF's officer ratio is so high because it is officers who fly. Support is being civilianised, where possible."

[Barnsey]

OK, modern airforces in drawdown will be very top heavy, but....

The press and jealous ignorant types often mistake a rank as a postion. A Squadron Leader is just the name of an officer's rank, not the position they are posted to.

Now I've left the mob (x2), there's a lot of deadwood in the senior ranks who should get the boot

[phil82]

Quite agree Barnsey. Rank is a benchmark for pay, and rarely has anything to do with the job. In that respect, I doubt we're any different from the RAF in that we have a sizeable contingent of Group Captains out of all proportion to the size of the RNZAF,doing jobs which once upon a time would have been done by a Sqn Ldr! When I was in the head-shed [or Disneyland as it was sometimes known] as a Sqn Ldr, there were numerous GD Gp Capts around with very little to do, and more than a few in positions they knew very little about.The trick was to steer around them! I've always maintained that the air force loses the very best officers it produces at the Sqn Ldr level, because they were too honest and capable to but up with the bullshit at the top end of the pyramid! There was also that influx of Direct Entry types waving MBAs who simply saw the air force as a job, and had absolutely no idea of the ethos behind it all. I worked with some brilliant senior guys for whom you'd always go the extra mile, but there were some crap=hats aswell!

[steve]

Phil82...great insight into the higher ranks and disneyland. You should write a book especially with you background also in the RAF. The sixties era for the RNZAF must have been its post ww2 hayday especially with upgrades under AVM Morrison. Were officer/ airman social interchange the same as the RAF or a little more relaxed?

[phil82]

Very different Steve! Kiwis were/are very much more laid back in their approach, but no less efficient. I was an airman in the RAF, and on one posting of two and half years, I never met my Flt Commander, a Flt Lt, yet he was signing my assessments, never having met me! However, despite that, I met some really personable officers, but they were invariably ex-war time aircrew, [I'm talking 1957-62 here. I was RNZAF 1962-82] and knew people.I met Johnny Johnson on a number of occasions when he was CO at Cottesmore, and he always stopped for a chat, very unusual for an RAF Gp Capt. Social intercourse between the ranks in the RAF was very much at prescribed times and circumstances, whereas the RNZAF was very much more relaxed, especially so on the squadrons.

I never met Morrison [Judy Bailey's dad by the way], but worked with or for some super people that followed him. Including Bolt, Siegert, and Neville. I believe Pat Neville was the first Nav ever to become CAS, and of course in those days all the top management positions were slotted for the General Duties Branch, that is, Pilots and Navs. In theory, any senior officer for one of the other branches, like Engineering for example, could get the top job, but I doubt you'll ever seen anyone without wings up there.

I have written a book incidentally, but it doesn't have too much of that sort of trivia in it! It's more or less a record of a somewhat unique career. It's circulating in draft form around my family at the moment! Comment so far is favourable, but I'm very much aware that it is an unfinished document! The more I look at it the more I see that should be included.

This last bit may well be the basis of that press release. Remember, the RAF is downsizing to around 40,000 from a current 48,000.

"Why are there 11,115 officers between the rank of Group Captain and Pilot Officer? This figure includes aircrew, who are obviously needed, yet 1166 of the 3762 Flying branch posts are non-flying duties. In the other branch posts there are 414 Group Captains, 1341 Wing Commanders, 2337 Squadron Leaders and 3263 Flight Lieutenants and below. The figures quoted above are from the RAF Appointments Register".

[phil82]

Actually, it's really immaterial how many officers there are, because they don't run the air force; the Warrant Officers do!

[Dave Homewood]

I agree with what Barnsey and Colin are saying. Sqn Ldrs and Gp Capts are just middle management when you think about it. they fill all walks of life within the service, Most do a good job too and can't be done without.

Further to Colin's comments about the best officers who leave at Sqn Ldr level, I used to also have an inkling that many of the best airmen left with Cpl rank - as they were young enough to pick up a good career in the airlines and instantly double their pay, taking their pension with them (which had massive bonuses at the 8 year and 14 year mark of service). A number of people who stayed in to Sgt and Flt Sgt rank were purely dead wood. Not all, but some. The best certainly left for greener pastures when they started chopping the RNZAF down.

I found as an airman it depended on which base you were on as far as mixing with officers. Whenuapai and Ohakea were so big I never got to meet many officers at all, but those few I did in the course of my lowly job, such as my Flt Commander at Whenuapai, were usually awesome people.

Ohakea seemed odd to me, everyone reverred the knucks as gods, and they seemed so aloof to me, a lowly baggy not on a squadron. I was literally nervous any time I went into one of the squadron hangars as I felt I didn't belong there - my workshop was in a dim dark corner of Tech Wing away for the big lights of Skyhawks and Maachis. I always felt like some servant scuttling into their realm and being looked down on. I realise now it wasn't really like that, but after Wigram where everyone was so relaxed, Ohakea seemed too Hollywood military to be true...

When I banged out at Ohakea I had to have an interview with the Tech Wing Sqn Ldr. He told me how much he valued my work, how pleased he was with me and how much he wished I would stay and not leave the RNZAF. This cosy chat over a cup of tea was the first time I had ever met the guy! I'd tried to think on the spot, but wasn't even sure if I'd ever seen him on a parade for Tech Wing or anything. It felt rather odd, he was a very nice chap and talking to me like he'd known me for years, and I'd worked there four months, but never seen him before. At Wigram however the Tech Wing CO was always at social gatherings and really got to know his men and women, even if he wasn't well liked by some.

At Wigram in the course of working with lots of officers coming in and out of the section, or me going in and out of their's, I found the officers much more relaxed and friendly than on the big bases. Our Flight Commanders were part of the team, not like OH and Whenuapai where you saw them on parades and once in a while when something had gone wrong. The NATTS officers who lived in the buildings next door became cheery neighbours as they went by, not strangers you saluted.

I also got to know many 3 Sqn pilots and their SNCO aircrews at Wigram. A few in particular became really close mates - one, Brent King, became a real good mate because my workmate Vaughn MacAllistar played rugby with him. We, and some other RNZAF guys, used to go to the games (Some of us watched and supported, while they played, for the Sydenham Cavaliers), then we'd all go have a meal or go drinking, etc. I got to meet Kingy's family and all sorts, just a normal friendship - no rank bullshit.

The only time I recall any issue with rank between us was he and Vaughn and I once went, in uniform, to Hornby Mall one lunchtime for some reason. We stepped out of the car and I automatically put on my hat, just a reaction. He ordered me to take it off. I asked why. He said "Because you're my mate, we're in public and I don't want you to have to salute me. It's embarrassing." I've always rememebred how naked I felt walking around without my hat on, but I'd been ordered by my mate not to, and for good reason considering our friendship. He didn't want to make me feel less than him. Respect!

But then, Wigram was the friendliest base. Hobby was also relaxed and friendly but Wigram was so chilled out. Everyone got along so well there.

[phil82]

I firmly believe that those that reach the top echelons of the service, while being very capable people, don't get me wrong, were not necessarily the best of what was available at the senior Sqn Ldr level. The higher you go, the more the buggerance factor creeps in, and you have to want to live with that to proceed. The result is that many of the very best the air force produce, that is good people-orientated types with natural management ability, and genuine intellect, leave at the point where they have to enter the promotion ladder at Wg Cmdr level. I'm not going to, but I could name a very long list of really excellent people who did just that. There were also quite a few who stayed on long past their use-by date! I'm not suggesting for a moment that those that do stay are not exceptional people: they clearly are talented, and have to develop a whole new set of skills as political animals! A lot of people don't want that. Senior officers start at Sqn Ldr, but there has always been a continuous stream of junior officers; Flt Lts and below, on short service commissions who get what they need from the service and move on. Pilots are a good example, and good on them. If they do 12 years or so then go to ANZ, then the country still has the benefit, and they can't possibly all stay as there wouldn't be room for them!

I don't know if anyone reads any of the 'Tales from the Dark Ages", that I post here, but I've had no complaints so here's another! I had about ten years service in two air forces [not at all unusual in fact; there has always been a trickle of ex-RAF people in the RNZAF], when I was commissioned and became a 28-year-old Pilot Officer; older than most by about three life-times, but supposedly more awake! Just before I went down to the "Charm School" at Wigram, I was involved, jobwise, in a serious car accident at Ohakea which killed the driver,a pilot, and his front seat passenger, and the back seat guy, another pilot was seriously injured; [I'm not mentioning any names]. It was the wee small hours around dawn before the scene was sorted and the survivor located to Palmerston Hospital. I was just about to enjoy a cuppa when the CO turned up with the MO and 'asked' if I would go with them to PN Hospital. I'm a B Neg blood donor, and so was the injured pilot now in emergency care. So off we went, and I gave blood to this most worthy cause, and eventually got back to OH after a very, very long night. Fast forward a few months, and I'm fresh off the Charm School, and a brand-new Pilot Officer walking into the Mess at OH. Don't let anyone tell you the first time you do that doesn't result in a few anxious moments. So I front up to the bar, and notice a small group of Flt Lts over in the corner, one of whom is "my" accident victim, now almost fully recovered. He looks over, gets a fresh pint from the barman, and brings it over to me. "I believe I owe you a pint, come and join us". Absolute magic! It's in the book!

[Dave Homewood]

Great tale Colin. I always enjoy your stories.

I can't give blood anymore, they don't want it. Because I lived in the UK during the BSC scare period. Doesn't bother me too much, I didn't like the needles anyway.

[phil82]

It's ridiculous. Our cows are not mad! I wouldn't go as far as to say they're thrilled to bits about going to the works, but they're not mad!. We were in the UK in May and were not offered beef on any menu now that I think about it!

[Dave Homewood]

I saw plenty of mad people on the streets of London when I was there, so it makes you wonder...

Back to the original topic, I think it's safe to say the RNZAF also has more Group Captains than fighter jets. In fact, more Air Vice Marshalls...