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Post by AussieBob on Oct 3, 2018 9:57:04 GMT 12
Can anyone on the forum confirm, deny or shed any light on this topic which came up in bar discussion at the local watering hole;
"When an international flight completes its travel and/or parked up overnight, the remaining fuel is drained and discarded, not permitted to be used for subsequent aviation use and moreso is prevented from use for any other purposes"
One of the reasons suggested for the ruling is the growth or spread of bacteria within the tanks, hence it's restriction even for downstream use for other than aviation purposes.
Is this correct or is it correct for NZ only ?
Should we now go back to drinking ?
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Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 3, 2018 10:53:43 GMT 12
Surely not?  I remember when interviewing Captain Mike Cater for the WONZ Show, who was a senior captain for Singapore Airways before he retired, he said pilots always ensure they get straight into the slot for landing and try to avoid a go around or any delays whatsoever because the fuel used in a go around was significant and if they saved the fuel the pilot would get a bonus. So it makes dumping the fuel seem counter intuitive. |
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Post by baronbeeza on Oct 3, 2018 11:02:25 GMT 12
Where can I buy that pub ? That has to be some brew they have on tap...
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Post by Bruce on Oct 3, 2018 12:00:36 GMT 12
It sounds very improbable. Airlines tend to buy the cheapest fuel and ferry it to other locations if required. They particularly like to uplift fuel from colder locations if they are going somewhere warmer, since it is more dense and they'll have more left when it warms up. Discarding fuel makes no sense at all - they like to ensure the unused reserve stays in the plane. Also when tanks are drained, it increases the risk of debris being stirred up from the tank bottoms and contaminating the fuel system.
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Post by camtech on Oct 3, 2018 12:47:49 GMT 12
Don't tell the airlines that they have been naughty boys for not draining the tanks.
The only thing that is drained from aircraft fuel tanks (unless being serviced) is a 2-3 litre sample to check for water.
I agree with baronbeeza - must be some potent brew!
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Post by ErrolC on Oct 3, 2018 13:25:40 GMT 12
It sounds very improbable. Airlines tend to buy the cheapest fuel and ferry it to other locations if required. They particularly like to uplift fuel from colder locations if they are going somewhere warmer, since it is more dense and they'll have more left when it warms up. Discarding fuel makes no sense at all - they like to ensure the unused reserve stays in the plane. Also when tanks are drained, it increases the risk of debris being stirred up from the tank bottoms and contaminating the fuel system. Um, same amount of go juice, just currently taking up less space - they pay for it by the pound, don't they? Or is it converted from gallons (Litres) at a fixed ratio? Hmm, the more I think about it the more complicated it gets. You have to watch weight and volume when loading an aircraft... |
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Post by nuuumannn on Oct 3, 2018 13:43:44 GMT 12
Drink up... The conversation will get to chemtrails and where they store the fluid aboard by the end of the night.
Like camtech says, fuel samples are taken for water in the tanks. When we have to work in the tanks or lift tank panels, we have to drain the tanks and that fuel gets stored and disposed of appropriately. It can't be used in aircraft again.
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Post by shorty on Oct 3, 2018 15:06:08 GMT 12
I know exactly what happened to the fuel that was drained from the CT-4s to get them down to Red Checkers weight limits!
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Post by camtech on Oct 3, 2018 21:16:49 GMT 12
Drink up... The conversation will get to chemtrails and where they store the fluid aboard by the end of the night. Like camtech says, fuel samples are taken for water in the tanks. When we have to work in the tanks or lift tank panels, we have to drain the tanks and that fuel gets stored and disposed of appropriately. It can't be used in aircraft again. Some married quarters used to have a slight odour of avtur after the kerosine heater had been running for a while. Slight tweaking of the wick generally cured most of that. |
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Post by tbf25o4 on Oct 4, 2018 8:08:57 GMT 12
At Wigram between 4 and 5 hangars were 44gal drums of AVGAS drained from Devons and Harvards undergoing checks. The boys ran their motorbikes on it, and we consumed many gallons in the TBF
to help get rid of the surplus!!
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Post by scrooge on Oct 4, 2018 8:52:34 GMT 12
Original bar talk not true.
In fact most (if not all) NZ airports no longer have de-fuelling capacity (at least from the re-fuelling side, they had no way to segregate and store fuel removed from an aircraft so withdrew the option). With modern requirements for trackability of anything and everything, removing fuel from one aircraft and putting it into another, let alone of a different operator would be a legal and insurance nightmare.
If an aircraft tank needs to be emptied for engineering it is often transferred to another tank in the same aircraft, after the aircraft has arrived with minimum fuel. But generally aircraft keep the fuel they have, and more is added as required to make up the load for the next flight. In some cases that might even happen the night or day before the flight.
In fact, it's generally better to have more fuel in the tanks to reduce vapour build up and also to reduce condensation, part of the very problem that the OP talks about. Aviation fuel is treated for the bug and samples are taken at the depot, in the trucks and at the aircraft.
Plus, could you imagine the airline accountants getting the monthly figures of how much fuel was dumped? especially when an aircraft arrives with fuel for a long diversion! even in a 737 or similar that could mean landing with 5-6 tonnes or more.
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Post by ErrolC on Oct 4, 2018 10:21:51 GMT 12
While on the topic, sort of, what is the general practice for GA aircraft? Do you normally fill up eg a club aircraft after you have used it?
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Post by scrooge on Oct 4, 2018 12:57:15 GMT 12
It depends, if it's usually in a hangar then maybe not (less chance of condensation). If outside or high use then either to full, or left with a nominated lowest level, or filled to a pre determined level- i.e. C152- not less than 50L, not more than 70L. Pipers fill to the tab, etc. Larger aircraft would have a variation.
This means that the aircraft would have enough for its next flight or 2 (training usually around 45 minutes-1 hour, C152@25LPH) plus reserve of 30 minutes, but not so much that 2 up plus fuel would put you overweight (in most cases). You'd then add more for longer flights (cross countries etc) if able.
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Post by nuuumannn on Oct 4, 2018 17:45:24 GMT 12
Our refuellers at Nelson defuel aeroplanes all the time for us. They take the fuel load down to the minimum in the tanks and we drain the rest. We have storage bins for it, which then gets taken away by a specialist firm.
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Post by scrooge on Oct 4, 2018 18:44:25 GMT 12
glad I covered that with a 'most' then. Do they dump what they pump out as well or just what you drain?
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Post by markrogers on Oct 9, 2018 7:44:19 GMT 12
Our refuellers at Nelson defuel aeroplanes all the time for us. They take the fuel load down to the minimum in the tanks and we drain the rest. We have storage bins for it, which then gets taken away by a specialist firm. what does the specialist firm do with the stored fuel? Do they run it through a decontamination process, removing the impurities? |
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Post by l29 on Oct 9, 2018 8:38:44 GMT 12
The "specialists" find another market to sell the fuel to, ie diesel burners and the likes. Our refuellers at Nelson defuel aeroplanes all the time for us. They take the fuel load down to the minimum in the tanks and we drain the rest. We have storage bins for it, which then gets taken away by a specialist firm. what does the specialist firm do with the stored fuel? Do they run it through a decontamination process, removing the impurities? |
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Post by nuuumannn on Oct 10, 2018 17:13:15 GMT 12
You might have to ask them that. Our airport is serviced by Z Energy who does our refuelling/defuelling, but as for getting rid of our surplus, I don't know the firm's name.
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I remember when interviewing Captain Mike Cater for the WONZ Show, who was a senior captain for Singapore Airways before he retired, he said pilots always ensure they get straight into the slot for landing and try to avoid a go around or any delays whatsoever because the fuel used in a go around was significant and if they saved the fuel the pilot would get a bonus. So it makes dumping the fuel seem counter intuitive.
