3rd OPV

[kiwiruna]

Hi All,

It looks like we may be getting a 3rd OPV.

I was on the Navy website and under the Meet the fleet,New Capability there is the following

"Third Offshore Patrol Vessel (OPV). The NZDF plays a role in supporting New Zealand's interests in Antarctica and the Southern Ocean. The third OPV is one of a range of new capabilities to modernise the NZDF signalled in the 2016 Defence White Paper. The OPV will add an ice-strengthened vessel to the fleet off offshore patrol vessels."

I know its' been talked about for some time but perhaps it's going to happen. I'd rather see a proper warship but hey its better than nothing now wheres the new lift aircraft.

[Dave Homewood]

Haven't they still got new ships laid up in dock with no crews?

[exkiwiforces]

Oct 20, 2018 16:09:11 GMT 12 Dave Homewood said:

Haven't they still got new ships laid up in dock with no crews?

Dave, I think you would find that every ship of the Grey Funnel Line is at sea, along side ready to go or in between sorties except for the the new dive support ship, the new tanker and one of the ANZAC Frigates.

From reading the last two to three NZ Navy magazines, the RNZN is rather busy atm and there are some members from a number of specialise branches of the Navy are also embedded with the RAN, RCN and RN while certain ships are in refit or being built IOT maintain some level MLOC or OLOC.

[Dave Homewood]

That is good to hear.

[kiwirob]

I think one of the new Canadian Harry DeWolf class AOPV's would be suitable fo the job, our the Chief of Navy went for a look earlier this year.

[phil]

I'd rather see news of three new Frigates.

[nighthawknz]

Oct 24, 2018 16:33:51 GMT 12 phil said:

I'd rather see news of three new Frigates.

I want us back to a four frigate navy... meaning we can have 1 hull on deployment somewhere in the world... (sometimes possibly 2), 1 in NZ waters on standby/leave/rotation, and 1 in maintenance...

and

3 OPV's
2 IPVs
1 AOR
1 MRV (I would prefer proper LPD with proper well-dock) ultimately I would like a proper Small LHD the Endurance 170 (but that no ever gonna happen lol)
1 DHV (Dive and Hydrographic Vessel)

but thats just me...

[mcmaster]

Oct 24, 2018 16:33:51 GMT 12 phil said:

I'd rather see news of three new Frigates.

And news of NZ joining the growing family of Type 26 users with Canada selection of 15 of that boat following Aus buy of 9 Hunter class building on the UK fleet. Asking too much? 😉

[atea]

Oct 25, 2018 11:32:27 GMT 12 mcmaster said:

Oct 24, 2018 16:33:51 GMT 12 phil said:

I'd rather see news of three new Frigates.

And news of NZ joining the growing family of Type 26 users with Canada selection of 15 of that boat following Aus buy of 9 Hunter class building on the UK fleet. Asking too much? 😉

Based on costs for the Canada Program at $4 billion a ship possibly asking many billions to much. We would struggle to afford one....... 
 

[macnz]

Any news on the 3rd OPV?

Will RNZN commission a new build of the same Otago class (expensive) or are we looking for a second hand bargin?

If the latter - is the soon to be decommissioned HMS Clyde worth consideration?

Why Ask?

RN announce retaining 3 of their batch 1 River class OPVs.
www.savetheroyalnavy.org/amongst-a-series-of-good-news-stories-royal-navy-ship-numbers-to-be-increased/

The fate of the enhanced fourth in class -HMS Clyde, that was modified to be based and operate from the Falklands - was not mentioned. Many of the modifications made to HMS Clyde were included in the new Batch 2 design. Could NZ look to pick this vessel up "on the cheap" as a stop-gap, given it was especially designed for the Southern hemisphere conditions?

Displacement: 1850-2,000 tonnes
Length: 81.5 m
Beam: 13.5 m
Propulsion: 2x Ruston 12RK 270 engines developing 4,125 kW (5,532 hp) at 1,000 rpm, Controllable pitch propellers,
280kW Bow thruster, 185kW Stern thruster
Speed: 21 kn (39 km/h)
Range: 5,500 nmi (10,200 km)
Endurance: 21 days
Boats: 1 × Pacific 22 RIB
1 × Rigid Raider
Troops: 20
Crew: 36
Armament: 1 × 30 mm DS30B gun
                 2 × Mk 44 miniguns
                 5 × 12.7mm General purpose machine guns

Aviation facilities: Merlin AW101-capable flight deck

[Bruce]

Not a silly idea.... HMS Clyde would be very capable for the role.... could be the new HMNZS Waikato (since its a River Class...)

[Naki.]

Thought the intention of the 3rd OPV was to be an ice breaker ?

[nighthawknz]

Nov 26, 2018 20:49:04 GMT 12 Naki. said:

Thought the intention of the 3rd OPV was to be an ice breaker ?

Not an icebreaker NZ can't afford one of them beasts. They want it ice capable ie; after an Icebreaker has passed through and done it's thing... in the end I would suggest that all we will end up with is another OPV with similar specs to what we already have. The Otago Class OPV does have a Ice Belt, rated PC6 Summer/autumn operation in medium first-year ice, which may include old ice inclusions.

[tfly]

Nov 26, 2018 21:47:27 GMT 12 nighthawknz said:

Nov 26, 2018 20:49:04 GMT 12 Naki. said:

Thought the intention of the 3rd OPV was to be an ice breaker ?

Not an icebreaker NZ can't afford one of them beasts. They want it ice capable ie; after an Icebreaker has passed through and done it's thing... in the end I would suggest that all we will end up with is another OPV with similar specs to what we already have. The Otago Class OPV does have a Ice Belt, rated PC6 Summer/autumn operation in medium first-year ice, which may include old ice inclusions.

It appears HMS Clyde has no hangar I cannot see the RNZN being interested in sending an OPV down into the ice with a helicopter left standing out on deck in the roaring 40’s

[macnz]

all good observations but I really wonder if the navy still have funding to commission 1 new PC6 rated OPV.

Back in 2007 each OPV was costed at about $110m, then the PC6 modification cost another $86m so thats $150m per vessel conservatively.
The navy had to scale back its spending ambitions for HMNZS Manawanui (getting MV Edda Fonna for a bargain $103m) because of the $148m Frigate upgrade blowout so if they are still shopping for a 3rd OPV to add within the next 2 years - one assumes it will be on a shoe string and second-hand. For a new ice capable mil-spec OPV NZ would need to be looking at Denmark, or Sweden. Forget about Canada or US, or Russia which is under sanction. A new build Australian OPV would need ice modification, as would British, Netherlands, French, Korean or Chinese built OPVs. All these options translate to 3 year delivery with est.$130m starting sticker price.

So given that the next capital funding priority for NZDF is the Herc replacements, the navy maybe struggling to scratch up $100m to capital spend on a 3rd OPV from 2019/2020 budgets. With BREXIT costs looming over the UK, NZ might be able to orchestrate a firesale deal on HMS Clyde, like Oz did with RFA Largs Bay, and Brazil did with HMS Ocean. The Brits may also want to keep us sweet for their Type 31e export too.

Sure,  Clyde doesn't have a hangar (surprisingly neither do the Batch 2s) and maybe not PC rated, but it was modified with additional propulsion, sensors and armament (Log and Echo sounder, SCANTER 4100 air & surface surveillance radar, AIS, 30mm on DS30B mount, 2 miniguns). Given the funding reality, if the 3rd OPV is needed fairly immediately to relieve the availability of the other 2, then  Clyde might be the affordable compromise that predominantly serves for fisheries/custom interdiction and SAR - providing it still has 10-15 years sea worthiness. Its current spec means it could patrol the majority of NZ maritime zones incl. SAR, with exception of the southern-most boundary which maybe could be left to Otago and Wellington?

[tnos]

It appears Clyde has been sold to Brazil. Or is about to be.

[macnz]

Yes Tnos, shame, well back to the drawing board.
Report i 'read' was in portugese (Google translate didn,t work on it) but seemed to confirm Brazil expecting to be adding Clyde in 2019.

Only 1 cabinet meeting left this year...

[frankly]

The "third OPV" is now known as the Southern Ocean Patrol Vessel.

It's still very much on the cards. A briefing of the environmental research was presented to industry recently.  The project is considered a very high priority for government and is being treated as a highly specialist, multi-agency platform. The environmental data is dramatic - this is new data acquired by the ongoing research programme in the Southern Ocean with MetOcean.

The Latest public comment from the ministry is that the dimensions of the vessel will likely be something similar to the Harry DeWolf class (i.e 6,500 tonnes, 100m+ length) or potentially larger.

[macnz]

Here's an interesting read on modifying/building OPVs for ice class rating.
Explains design trade-offs; weight penalties, propulsion performance, electrical output, etc.

www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/20464177.2014.11658118

Harry DeWolf class looks to cost the same as a frigate (CA$5.8b for 6) so doubt we will have funds to commission a new build in that size category.
Makes sense to look for a polar platform for multi-agency use. Probably have to be an ex arctic oil and gas vessel conversion, like the Canadian Coastguard procured from Viking Supply/Davie shipyards as stopgap measure while awaiting Harry DeWolf class

www.davie.ca/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/icebreaker-briefing-RESOLUTE-1.pdf

Oh well ...either OPV will be a secret santa announcement or we will wait to hear in 2019.

[frankly]

Dec 7, 2018 18:18:24 GMT 12 macnz said:

Harry DeWolf class looks to cost the same as a frigate (CA$5.8b for 6) so doubt we will have funds to commission a new build in that size category.
Makes sense to look for a polar platform for multi-agency use. Probably have to be an ex arctic oil and gas vessel conversion, like the Canadian Coastguard procured from Viking Supply/Davie shipyards as stopgap measure while awaiting Harry DeWolf class
 

Don't confuse the size of the Canadian vessels with the complexity and which part is driving costs. The Canadian ships have the same combat management system as the Anzacs are getting. It's likely they've got significant ASW capabilities given Canada's other obligations. The mass of the vessel was what was pointed to as being roughly representative by the MoD acquisition domain director, so presumably he's well aware of his own budget constraints!

The data that was recently presented makes a second hand vessel extremely unlikely.