Betty Recoveries

[vultee43]

Very interesting article on recoveries in the Solomans. However it raises the old debate of save or leave in situ. Hopefully this ends better than recent recoveries.

warbirdsnews.com/warbirds-news/wwii-japanese-aircraft-wrecks-salvaged-at-balalae.html

[FlyingKiwi]

Some of those look surprisingly well preserved, all things considered, I was under the impression most of the known and relatively accessible wrecks on land in the Pacific had by now either already been recovered or else deteriorated (or "been deteriorated" by scrap hunters...) beyond salvation. I have heard the Japanese aircraft were better corrosion proofed and have lasted more easily than the US types but I don't know if that's true or not.

[Dave Homewood]

Nope from what I have heard there is still plenty more up in the Solomons and PNG, but laws protect them from being recovered peacemeal like the olden days.

[shorty]

Dec 31, 2018 11:59:32 GMT 12 FlyingKiwi said:

Some of those look surprisingly well preserved, all things considered, I was under the impression most of the known and relatively accessible wrecks on land in the Pacific had by now either already been recovered or else deteriorated (or "been deteriorated" by scrap hunters...) beyond salvation. I have heard the Japanese aircraft were better corrosion proofed and have lasted more easily than the US types but I don't know if that's true or not.

Opposite way round, USN aircraft have a lot of anodising on them whereas IJN aircraft have minimal anti-corrosion treatment.

[dade]

The following statement in the Warbird Digest is very relevant, as sometimes the signed papers are not worth the paper they are written on.

There is reportedly a Memorandum of Understanding which includes the refurbishment and return of two aircraft back to the Museum for display. Such agreements have occurred in the past, of course, but once something leaves the islands, enforcing the terms is very difficult to police….

One can only hope this is not the case, as everybody is the looser in the end and the country they go to ends up being a country not be trusted.
But there will be decades before seeing a finished product. You only have to see how long the Kawasaki Ki-61 Hien is taking and that is a smaller aircraft.
The statement about no substantial Betty bombers in the world forgets the business man in japan who has a complete refurbished fuselage. But yes my thoughts are these aircraft remains should be recovered and refurbished but as long as the intentions are good.

[davidd]

My understanding is that the IJN had rather good airframe protection systems during WW2, with the interior blue-green translucent paint apparently impressing the US Navy when they finally got around to studying it on captured aircraft (or parts thereof); this was quite a different protection system to that employed by the Americans, but it was not adopted by the Allies. IJA (Army) aircraft, however were notorious for losing large areas of the external paintwork after serving for a few months in harsh tropical climes far from home, although normally they did not have corrosive salty atmospheres to contend with. The RNZAF seemed to have similar problems with rather massive losses of camouflage paint from its repainted Kittyhawks and Hudsons in 1943 - best not to dwell on that one! The increasing use of magnesium alloys to replace aluminium alloys because of the weight savings, in American aircraft as the war progressed led to some interesting problems, and these had disastrous outcomes on aluminium structures located close to such items as magnesium wheel castings. However probably not a major problem in normal service. Some of the Japanese corrosion problems came from the use of a type of "extra-strong duralium" (ESD) in Zero fighter wings spars and other highly stressed parts, as this proved to be rather prone to intergranular separation (also known as defoliation I think). I have also heard that the British anodising systems employed on many of their flying boats (including Singapore IIIs) was supposedly superior to American systems, but I could not possibly comment on that assertion. However highly likely that late-war built IJN aircraft had lesser quality corrosion resistance, for similar reasons to those quoted for the equally hard-pressed Germans.
David D

[oj]

In "Pacific Aircraft Wrecks and Where to Find Them" Charles Darby praises the Japanese anti-corrosion treatment and illustrates the point.

[FlyingKiwi]

That might be where I read that, I do have that book on my shelf. It would be interesting to have a follow-up volume one day showing what happened to all the wrecks that were featured, there were some seriously rare aircraft there, particularly some of the Japanese types.

[Deleted]

It's wonderful to re-read the book and recognise aircraft that are now flying, or under restoration. But still deeply disappointing when one wonders how much of the others is left.

[FlyingKiwi]

Funny thing, I remember looking through it as a child and one photo that stood out was a pile of Kittyhawk fuselages, and it was only much much later as an adult that I learned that one of them is ZK-CAG at Ardmore.

[Dave Homewood]

Recovered by our very own Shorty too, Leo.