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Post by nighthawknz on Apr 14, 2019 11:15:28 GMT 12
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Post by thelensofhistory on Apr 14, 2019 19:11:25 GMT 12
A fantastic article. The naval and air aspects of INTERFET warrant a greater level of attention from historians, defence planners and political decision makers. Suffice to say only politicians are stupid enough not have retained a four frigate navy, and the capabilities offered by the RNZAF Skyhawks and (planned) F-16's.
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Post by thebrads on Apr 14, 2019 22:01:40 GMT 12
Thanks for posting this. I enjoyed the read, especially as I was onboard and this bought back some memories. |
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chis73
Flight Lieutenant
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Post by chis73 on Apr 15, 2019 8:11:22 GMT 12
For those wanting a more detailed account - try Warren Cummins' (CO of Canterbury at the time? - so maybe the same author as the article linked above) thesis on RNZN activity in East Timor. Link here. Its sobering reading. Particularly for me, the account of the botched over-the-beach operation at Suai (RAN, not RNZN), is all the justification needed for a vastly improved RNZN amphibious capability. Granted, it has improved, but is still pretty flaky. As the cheapest option that would work - I would love to see, in addition to the new Canterbury (which we are stuck with), something like a breakbulk freighter (doesn't need to be new) held in reserve status in Auckland. It would be operated as per the US Military Sealift Command's Ready Reserve Fleet (ie a skeleton maintenance crew of 9-10, held at say 5-10 days readiness for action), and probably also serve as a training ship for the Unitec Maritime School based in Auckland in peacetime. Ideally, it would carry some sort of navy lighterage system (the equivalent of the old WWII one would be fine), plus breakbulk cargo or (some) containers as required - perhaps an extra LCM 8 as deck cargo if possible. It would be worth fitting it with the US Modular Cargo Delivery System & a small flightdeck (no hangar or embarked helo) so that it could undertake underway replenishment of solid stores (the new Aotearoa looks deficient, IMHO, in this capability). An Auckland-based naval reservist crew and cargo handling unit could be set up to operate it when needed (and maybe take it to a major exercise every couple of years). |
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Post by 30sqnatc on Apr 16, 2019 16:47:35 GMT 12
Very interesting article which as it says is less understood than the land contribution.
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Post by skyhawkdon on Apr 16, 2019 20:53:40 GMT 12
I spent an interesting day on HMNZS Canterbury when she was parked up at Darwin during Exercise Kakadu in 1999 as a guest of the ship's engineering officer who I knew. One of the engines/gearboxes had a severe vibration problem due to alignment problems. It is briefly mentioned in the thesis linked above. The Navy engineering guys did amazing work to get it sorted in time for what was to come in a couple of weeks. Although I believe Canterbury could never again run her engines at full speed because of the problem. The alignment problems were caused by the modifications to the flight deck and hangar to accommodate the new Seasprite helicopter. Basically the whole aft end of the ship flexed a lot more than it used to, causing misalignment between the steam turbine engine and prop shaft gearbox! Whenever they wound her up to full power it would destroy the bearings in the gearbox.
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Post by thelensofhistory on Apr 17, 2019 1:32:56 GMT 12
I spent an interesting day on HMNZS Canterbury when she was parked up at Darwin during Exercise Kakadu in 1999 as a guest of the ship's engineering officer who I knew. One of the engines/gearboxes had a severe vibration problem due to alignment problems. It is briefly mentioned in the thesis linked above. The Navy engineering guys did amazing work to get it sorted in time for what was to come in a couple of weeks. Although I believe Canterbury could never again run her engines at full speed because of the problem. The alignment problems were caused by the modifications to the flight deck and hangar to accommodate the new Seasprite helicopter. Basically the whole aft end of the ship flexed a lot more than it used to, causing misalignment between the steam turbine engine and prop shaft gearbox! Whenever they wound her up to full power it would destroy the bearings in the gearbox.
The RAN should take note of such instances with interest. Their Anzac Class Frigates are expected to see an additional 20 years service, they were designed build for a 30 year service life.
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Post by thebrads on Apr 17, 2019 16:24:39 GMT 12
I spent an interesting day on HMNZS Canterbury when she was parked up at Darwin during Exercise Kakadu in 1999 as a guest of the ship's engineering officer who I knew. One of the engines/gearboxes had a severe vibration problem due to alignment problems. It is briefly mentioned in the thesis linked above. The Navy engineering guys did amazing work to get it sorted in time for what was to come in a couple of weeks. Although I believe Canterbury could never again run her engines at full speed because of the problem. The alignment problems were caused by the modifications to the flight deck and hangar to accommodate the new Seasprite helicopter. Basically the whole aft end of the ship flexed a lot more than it used to, causing misalignment between the steam turbine engine and prop shaft gearbox! Whenever they wound her up to full power it would destroy the bearings in the gearbox. Largely true, but the ability to run at "full power"* was restored as back at DNB after the Darwin/Kakadu trip, prior to going to Timor. The gearbox was a fixed integral part of the engine room. There was some ability to fine tune the shafts, which wasn't an issue as i recall, but it was the (turbine) engine-gearbox alignment. Although the turbine was mounted immediately infront of the gearbox, approaching 30 years of age had got things out of alignment, and there was no more adjustment available. Dockyard (would have been Babcock then) basically enlongated the engine mounting holes to allow more adjustment. Sounds a bit rough, but was done with some pretty specialised drillig rig, lasers aligning things etc and it worked. (as noted by Cmdr Cummins in his article, we did the Tasman trip in 50 something hours, usually it took from about 1000 Monday until 1400 Friday to do the same trip! *The Leanders operated an old telegraph speed system like in the movies. Speed was dictated by the bridge to engine room at either Slow ahead/astern (30rpm at the prop), Half speed and then a seperate order give the rpm desired. It was the bridge's job to translate knots to rpm, the engine room only dealt in rpm). Max rpm on request was 252 which translated to about 32 knots. (This was checked reasonably regularly, perhaps yearly, during a Full Power Trial after a period of maintenance etc) Full Power could be rung in on the telegraph, this was literally open it up to full, while maintaining boiler pressures and the like above some minimums. (which supposedly gave Canterbury only 19 hours of fuel.) I only ever saw this once, rounding north head coming home when some other boat decided to move in the way and we were forced to move reasonably quickly. |
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Post by thebrads on Apr 17, 2019 16:31:13 GMT 12
A fantastic article. The naval and air aspects of INTERFET warrant a greater level of attention from historians, defence planners and political decision makers. Suffice to say only politicians are stupid enough not have retained a four frigate navy, and the capabilities offered by the RNZAF Skyhawks and (planned) F-16's. Another aspect i was told at the time by my WO (Nearest thing to God right?) was that Canterbury was used as Guard ship more than anyone else, and loitered closer to shore than other frigates/warships in the area, because of the visual aspect of having a large gun turret mounted at the front in plain view provided a great deterrent to anyone thinking of getting up to mischief. More modern ships, including all the Aussies there, were loaded to the hilt with missiles, which when the time comes might pack more hitting power, but don't look threatening as the missile systems are in square boxes or even out of sight (e.g. the ANZAC VLS). |
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Post by nighthawknz on Apr 17, 2019 17:58:40 GMT 12
*The Leanders operated an old telegraph speed system like in the movies. Speed was dictated by the bridge to engine room at either Slow ahead/astern (30rpm at the prop), Half speed and then a seperate order give the rpm desired. It was the bridge's job to translate knots to rpm, the engine room only dealt in rpm). Max rpm on request was 252 which translated to about 32 knots. (This was checked reasonably regularly, perhaps yearly, during a Full Power Trial after a period of maintenance etc) Full Power could be rung in on the telegraph, this was literally open it up to full, while maintaining boiler pressures and the like above some minimums. (which supposedly gave Canterbury only 19 hours of fuel.) I only ever saw this once, rounding north head coming home when some other boat decided to move in the way and we were forced to move reasonably quickly. All done via the wheelhouse... The bridge would communicate the command to the wheelhouse which then was manually communicated to the engine room via the old telegraph speed system one each for port & starboard, and a seperate one for the revolutions/rpm ... |
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