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Post by corsair67 on May 6, 2020 21:22:36 GMT 12
Dave has asked me to put together a listing of all the known RNZAF Corsair codes with their respective serials - to complement the recently posted list of RNZAF Kittyhawk ones. Here is what I have found so far, using that wonderful resource, NZPAF & RNZAF Aircraft Colour Schemes, Volume 3 – Corsair Special by Warren P. Russell: Pacific-Based Corsairs: NZ5202 F4U-1 Corsair – ‘A’ & ‘K’ (4SU) NZ5204 F4U-1 Corsair – ‘L’ (4SU) NZ5215 F4U-1 Corsair – ‘E’ (4SU) NZ5216 F4U-1 Corsair – ‘L’ & ‘S’ (4SU) NZ5225 F4U-1 Corsair – ‘B’ (4SU) NZ5227 F4U-1 Corsair – ‘C’ (4SU) NZ5228 F4U-1 Corsair – ‘D’ (4SU) NZ5229 F4U-1 Corsair – ‘E’ (4SU) NZ5230 F4U-1 Corsair – ‘F’ (4SU) NZ5232 F4U-1 Corsair – ‘M’ (4SU) NZ5233 F4U-1 Corsair – ‘G’ ‘Gloria Lyons’ (4SU) NZ5235 F4U-1 Corsair – ‘O’ (4SU) NZ5236 F4U-1 Corsair – ‘H’ & ‘Q’ (4SU) NZ5237 F4U-1 Corsair – ‘I’ (4SU) NZ5238 F4U-1 Corsair – ‘J’ (4SU) NZ5240 F4U-1 Corsair – ‘K’ (4SU) NZ5241 F4U-1 Corsair – ‘M’ (4SU) NZ5246 F4U-1 Corsair – ‘P’ (4SU) NZ5247 F4U-1 Corsair – ‘L’ (4SU) NZ5252 F4U-1 Corsair – ‘M’ (4SU) NZ5253 F4U-1 Corsair – ‘G’ (4SU) NZ5255 F4U-1 Corsair – ‘C’ (4SU) NZ5257 F4U-1 Corsair – ‘N’ (4SU) NZ5259 F4U-1 Corsair – ‘P’ (4SU) NZ5267 F4U-1 Corsair – ‘Q’ (4SU) NZ5271 F4U-1 Corsair – ‘A’ (4SU) NZ5276 F4U-1 Corsair – ‘N’ (4SU) NZ5287 F4U-1 Corsair – ‘R’ (4SU) NZ5293 F4U-1 Corsair – ‘R’ (4SU) NZ5295 F4U-1 Corsair – ‘G’ (4SU) NZ5299 F4U-1 Corsair – ‘T’ (4SU) NZ5300 F4U-1 Corsair – ‘Q’ (4SU) NZ5301 F4U-1 Corsair – ‘Q’ (4SU) NZ5302 F4U-1 Corsair – ‘M’ (4SU) NZ5310 F4U-1 Corsair – ‘I’ (4SU) NZ5324 F4U-1 Corsair – ‘R’ (4SU) NZ5334 F4U-1 Corsair – ‘N’ (4SU) NZ5335 F4U-1 Corsair – ‘C’ (4SU) NZ5393 F4U-1 Corsair – ‘U’ & ‘P’ (4SU) NZ5395 F4U-1 Corsair – ‘V’ & ‘O’ (4SU) NZ5397 F4U-1D Corsair – ‘M’ (4SU)
New Zealand-Based Corsairs:
NZ5320 F4U-1 Corsair – ‘RK-V’ (3SU) NZ5322 F4U-1 Corsair – ‘ZG-2’ (5SU) NZ5332 F4U-1 Corsair – ‘4’ (5SU) NZ5337 F4U-1 Corsair – ‘J’ (3SU) NZ5355 F4U-1 Corsair – ‘C’ (SU uncertain) NZ5357 F4U-1 Corsair – ‘M’ (3SU) NZ5506 F4U-1 Corsair – ‘UY-06’ (26SU) NZ5514 F4U-1 Corsair – ‘UY-14’ (26SU) NZ5523 F4U-1 Corsair – ‘RK-A’ (3SU) NZ5530 F4U-1 Corsair – ‘RK-C’ (3SU) NZ5531 F4U-1 Corsair – ‘RK-D’ (3SU)
NZ5543 F4U-1D Corsair - 'Y' (SU unknown)
NZ5547 F4U-1D Corsair – ‘Y’ (SU uncertain – but possibly 3SU?) NZ5550 F4U-1D Corsair – ‘RK-S’ (3SU) If anyone notices any errors, or knows of any additional ones - please let me know, or add to the list in comments below.
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 6, 2020 21:30:46 GMT 12
Thanks very much Craig, this will be a valuable list for reference in the future, like the P-40 list has become, and we'll d more as we find them.
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Post by davidd on May 7, 2020 12:28:22 GMT 12
Aghhhh!! Too many F4U-1A's in this list for my liking - should not be any! Neither the US Navy nor RNZAF ever recognized this designation - seems it was invented by the public relations people employed by the manufacturer (CV) in the early 1950s, when they were celebrating their 25th Anniversary (at least I think that was the occasion). They compiled and published some kind of booklet with illustrations of all their products, and it was at this time that the infamous "F4U-1A" appeared for the first time. Needless to say, it was not within CV's purview to give their own products Navy designations - that was exclusively the US Navy's responsibility. Incidentally NZ5397 was an F4U-1D, as were all the following aircraft assembled at Espiritu Santo apart from the last (5487) which was a straggler F4U-1. Of those assembled at Hobsonville, those up to 5536 were -1s, above that they were all -1D's. After WW2, pretty well all the early (-1) models were considered semi-obsolete, but the RNZAF was permitted to ship its best FG-1Ds to Japan in March 1946 for occupation duties, but it was never envisaged that they would be shipped back home - and they weren't. Whether any FG-1Ds were used in Korea by USN or Marines I do not know, but probably not, however some may have been used by Reserve squadrons at home for a few years post-WW2. David D
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Post by corsair67 on May 7, 2020 13:49:08 GMT 12
David, thank you for your advice and input: "A" designation duly removed - it is a bad habit of mine that I need to curtail! Spent too much time talking to American Corsair fans!
Also, I forgot about those -1Ds that snuck into the serials 'out of sequence' (i.e. outside the NZ54++ range) - as well as the several F4U-1s that appeared again at NZ5461-63, NZ5465 and NZ5487.
The USN (and USMC?) did operate FG-1Ds in Korea - and actually brought a number out of storage to bolster squadrons operating both in Korea and at home in the US during the early period of the conflict.
David, one question I have that you may also be able to answer: what was the average total airframe hours for RNZAF Corsairs when they returned from the Pacific?
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 7, 2020 14:39:45 GMT 12
I think working out the average airframe hours will be fraught and hard to pin down. Like the P-40's, Hudsons and Venturas they flew a lot of hours over long distances, and like the P-40's often several times a day. And the documentation where you could find out for individual aeroplanes like the Form 700 have not been kept. You could work it out from the Operations Record Books to get a reasonable idea but it would take you a long time.
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Post by baz62 on May 7, 2020 15:06:38 GMT 12
Dave has asked me to put together a listing of all the known RNZAF Corsair codes with their respective serials - to complement the recently posted list of RNZAF Kittyhawk ones. Here is what I have found so far, using that wonderful resource, NZPAF & RNZAF Aircraft Colour Schemes, Volume 3 – Corsair Special by Warren P. Russell: Well done. You must be seeing codes and serial numbers in your sleep!
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Post by davidd on May 7, 2020 18:57:43 GMT 12
As Dave H states, working out an "average" would be a colossal job, but another way is to look up some of the accident reports which include total number of hours, which can give you something that is real and touchable. Some aircraft were kept as reserves for perhaps weeks, occasionally months, others had numerous bumps and thumps, and spent a lot of time being repaired. A few of the very early Corsairs, from the March and April 1944 shipments, survived the war and made it back to New Zealand in Sept/Oct 1945. My guess would be that even these aircraft would have been struggling to get to 2,500 hours, if that. Unlike airliners, military strike aircraft usually take quite a long time to accumulate a good total. It was also rare for most WW2 pilots to get more than 1,500 hours, even if they were flying from beginning to end. Some who spent their entire flying career (or a good proportion of it) on instructional duties would manage to get higher figures than this, although some of these may well have been accumulated before the war with aero clubs. Bryan Cox took a good many years to get his 20,000-odd hours, as you can read in his publications. On reflection, I think 2,500 is probably far too many hours for a flying life of a fighter over 16 months, say April 1944 to July 1945. Not certain of the time between overhauls for Corsairs, may have been 360, perhaps a bit more, have not bothered to find this info and put it in my files. I am guessing fighters put up less hours than bombers, but have no real way of checking that out, although the RNZAF did publish the total number of hours flown by most of the RNZAF squadrons, but this only included the hours overseas, and does not give separate figures for P-40s and F4Us. However many squadrons compile monthly totals of flying hours, so if you can get these, and divide them by, say, 18 aircraft (usual establishment) you could get some interesting figures. Other times if you are lucky, you can find the total number of hours flown by a squadron during its entire tour overseas, and sometimes even in NZ. I might be able to turn up a few examples, but not at the moment. I will reduce my totally unscientific estimate of possible total hours by an RNZAF fighter in the forward areas as maybe 1,500 to 1,800 hours, if it was in constant use for the full 16 months, and with excellent serviceability and no serious prangs. And remember, this just from a feeling in my old bones. I remember that NZ Catalinas, in service from about mid-1943, managed to get at least into their 4th "life" of 360 hours each by end of war. David D PS, sorry to have been so harsh with you, should learn to be a much nicer person (one day!)
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Post by corsair67 on May 7, 2020 22:07:48 GMT 12
David, I didn't take your feedback as being harsh - but actually appreciated the fact that you 'pulled me into line'
Anyway, it'll teach me to be more careful when I post stuff without first checking it thoroughly too, as I also picked up that I had NZ5530 noted down twice, rather than NZ5530 and NZ5531.
Very interesting also re. your knowledge on flight hours for the Corsairs, and how things were recorded by the RNZAF during the war.
I still wish my Dad had had the foresight to 'drag' a few Corsairs down to his farm on Banks Peninsula when they came up for sale in the late-1940s!
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 7, 2020 22:36:17 GMT 12
Yes I think 1,500 to 1,800 hours or so would be the upper limit for the Corsairs. So the actual average would be a lot smaller figure than that. And of course there were 424 Corsairs that served and only 13 squadrons (12 active at any given time) plus a couple of schools using them so I am sure they did not keep flying them till they were all old bangers, they would have had plenty of new ones coming on stream and rotated the older ones out, I'd have thought.
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Post by davidd on May 8, 2020 12:54:46 GMT 12
On checking up on some actual hours achieved by various P-40's and Corsairs, I now realize that even my second, more conservative estimate of the "actual flying life" of an RNZAF fighter was WAY TOO HIGH! I will in the near future post up some more details of actual lives (from accident reports, although some of these merely record the flying hours accumulated UP TO AN "UNSCHEDULED INCIDENT" which has resulted in an accident report and the repairs necessary, but also includes accumulated hours at time. Often engine hours at time of incident also recorded, along with engine number, etc. Anyway, so far I have not found A SINGLE RNZAF FIGHTER AIRCRAFT of the WW2 era, which has exceeded 1,000 flying hours, in fact highest I have found to date is about 950, and this happened to be an elderly P-40E at Ohakea with an OTU in 1945, while highest houred Corsair located to date has been about 4 or 500 hours. Of the FG-1D's which were delivered in mid-1945, and were taken to Japan, several seem to have accumulated about 250 hours by 1948. I also found a P-40K with about 6 or 700 hours too, which was good going as majority of this model did not make it to the end of the war. Probable that some Hudsons (and particularly ones converted to C-63 transports) may have exceeded 1,500 hours, as most of our early C-47s had racked up about 2,500 hours by early 1947, and were considered "almost worn out!", which is why they decided to scrap them. The lower-houred C-47Bs were the ones that were transferred to NAC. The thing to remember is that, unless it is a transport aircraft, military aircraft spend the vast majority of their lives on the ground, and this observation applies to world wars too. There are reasons for this of course, but I would say that even apparently busy military aircraft in WW2 spent probably 90 to 95% of their lives on Terra Firma. I also have notes taken from the log books of several RNZAF Tiger Moths and one Harvard (all WW2) and these show a similar example of surprisingly modest activity. However note that I have only looked at a tiny percentage of accident reports, so this is a work in progress. David D
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 8, 2020 14:42:14 GMT 12
I actually did think that 1500 seemed rather high. I almost said it too, and then I thought nah, David knows his stuff and the Corsairs were in the Pacific a long time so it must be a good ballpark figure.
However the busiest Pacific P-40's seemed to fly around 100 per month on operations. So I'd guess a busy P-40 would amass around the 400-500 hours mark in the Pacific before it returned after being replaced by a new one, and then if they went to the OTU maybe add another 200 hours max added. P-40's that never left NZ would be a lot lower in hours as OTU flights were never regularly as long as the Pacific patrols, so that P-40E you found must be exceptional to have that many hours.
Also the Corsairs moved further north so their long distance flights to targets would be a shorter distance I'd thin, cutting down the hours. Often the P-40 operations were 4 hours, wheres the Corsair ops were very seldom that long, and usually more about the 1.5 hour mark.
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Post by davidd on May 8, 2020 15:36:14 GMT 12
Dave, Herewith an atypical history of one Corsair, this a solely NZ-based one, NZ5518. Information from an accident report, pilot F/L Arthur George (Zoot) Stanley, Flight Commander, "A" Flight, 4 OTU, Ohakea. Date 9/7/45, time 1222 hours, total flying hours recorded for this aircraft, 55 hrs, 55 mins. F/L Stanley led a Section (actually two sections!) of 8 Corsairs to carry out a practice bombing detail at the Raumai bombing range. After this formation airborne for 35 minutes the leader noticed hydraulic oil leaking from the "gull" of his starboard wing, so he jettisoned his bombs and returned to base. He attempted to jettison his bomb rack but it would not jettison. His undercarriage failed to lower normally, nor with CO2. He therefore carried out a belly landing on the grass south of E - W runway after conferring (on R/T) with Squadron Leader D A Greig (his CO). The fluid loss was due to a defective seal in the starboard u/c door jack. "This aircraft, NZ5518, had been used for 12 months for engine and cockpit instruction, and has only flown 30 hours in last year, has been idle for up to 2 months at a time." This aircraft was a write off. As they say, work em'hard and they'll last for years! Aircraft sitting around outside doing nothing will suddenly start weeping from every orifice if they are asked to do any real work.
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Post by corsair67 on May 9, 2020 11:53:45 GMT 12
Thank you David for going to the effort of going through some records of specific Corsairs, and I am absolutely amazed how few hours NZ5518 had on the clock when Zoot put her down - but not surprised this happened to an aircraft left in-active for such long periods of time.
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Post by pjw4118 on May 9, 2020 16:52:29 GMT 12
And theres 5545 "Corsair " , maube it counts as nose art not code. 5527 UY 5332 4
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Post by corsair67 on May 17, 2020 13:54:46 GMT 12
I have just noticed another serial/code combination in a photograph from the AFMofNZ collection (negative PR3999B) - which clearly shows F4U-1D Corsair NZ5543 taxiing at Ardmore wearing the letter 'Y' on the cowling.
I do note that Warren P. Russell has identified another F4U-1D as wearing the letter 'Y' (NZ5547), but I do not know if this means it was from another Servicing Unit, or a misidentified serial/code.
I have now added NZ5543 to the list.
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 17, 2020 16:37:33 GMT 12
Maybe one replaced another? Sometimes an individual aircraft had their serial codes changed too for various reasons.
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