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Post by tbf25o4 on May 28, 2020 10:03:54 GMT 12
Wigram had a dispersed temporary camp where the Primary School and later MQ housing was in Springs Road
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 28, 2020 10:10:26 GMT 12
Thanks Paul.
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 29, 2020 15:25:16 GMT 12
Here is something that surprised me. PR5973-R2-27a-65 Exercise Pacific Concord in Australia. Public air show and display at RAAF Base Richmond. No. 14 Squadron pilot letting a young lady with a dog, wear his flying helmet with a Kiwi painted on it, in front of Canberra NZ6105.  I did not know till I saw that that the silver fern in the roundels back then appears to be a decal, rather than being painted on using a stencil as I'd always assumed. It seems to be a lot more detailed and fine than I'd thought too. You seldom ever see a photo of these roundels close up. |
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Post by davidd on May 29, 2020 16:38:40 GMT 12
Yes Dave, the stencilled fern leaves were only in vogue for about 2 years before they were ousted by the "decal" version. Apparently the stencilled jobs were the ones which attracted the scorn of the RAF and RAAF in Malaya, who likened them to "white feathers" - RNZAF HQ decided to put a stop to that sort of talk, and introduced the silver fern, which may or may not have discouraged the loud mouthed types. You would be amazed by the number of roundel sizes in use on RNZAF aircraft at this time (1958), I think the original number was something like a dozen sizes, but this was ruthlessly pared down to something like 6 or seven before they placed orders for the required supplies of the decals. I think the smallest roundels were either those on Vampires (tail booms) or Austers, and largest were wing roundels for Hastings and Bristols, and Canberras.
David D
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 29, 2020 18:00:33 GMT 12
Very interesting David. How well did the decals hold up to exposure to sitting in the sunlight or to weather and flight conditions back then? Were they pretty rugged?
Also where did they get them made? NZ or overseas? (That might be impossible to answer of course)
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Post by 30sqnatc on May 29, 2020 20:16:52 GMT 12
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Post by saratoga on May 29, 2020 22:42:45 GMT 12
Here is something that surprised me. PR5973-R2-27a-65 Exercise Pacific Concord in Australia. Public air show and display at RAAF Base Richmond. No. 14 Squadron pilot letting a young lady with a dog, wear his flying helmet with a Kiwi painted on it, in front of Canberra NZ6105. I did not know till I saw that that the silver fern in the roundels back then appears to be a decal, rather than being painted on using a stencil as I'd always assumed. It seems to be a lot more detailed and fine than I'd thought too. You seldom ever see a photo of these roundels close up. I don't think that is a decal. Most of the aircraft i have seen with the fernleaf have had it stencilled on, often quite thickly. To me that looks like, effectively, overspray, not decal film. The few i have seen with siler fern decal had the 'outlined' fern, similar but with thin black outline, not easy to do with a stencil. |
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 29, 2020 23:08:10 GMT 12
I am not at all convinced that it is stencilled. It's extremely intricate, far too intricate for a stencil imho. And any overspray would surely be silver, and that is not silver. The silver fern has nice defined edges. I think it is a decal that has been on for a while and the clear film has crazed, and it has started to wear off. Here's a close up.  |
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Post by tbf25o4 on May 30, 2020 9:33:55 GMT 12
Dave, I have several examples of the silver fern transfer that I picked up years ago, I also passed a selection of them (different sizes depending on the roundel to be applied to) the the museum in 2016.
They were applied, then overcoated with a clear varnish finish to expend their longevity, but suffered damage reasonably quickly on high speed aircraft, and through aircraft washing
They come on a backing sheet and were applied in the same way as for aircraft plastic kit transfers
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Post by tbf25o4 on May 30, 2020 11:02:06 GMT 12
On 28 November 1958 approval was given for an order of silver fern leaf transfers to be placed on Quality Transfer Co for the following:
33c/N831 qty 100 Transfers 6"
33c/N832 qty 100 Transfers 10"
33c/N833 qty 600 Transfers 12"
33c/N834 qty 100 Transfers 18"
33d/N835 qty 100 Transfers 28"
Total Cost Pounds 382.10.00
This was following a revision of roundel sizes which reduced the seven sizes on the whole fleet to five with the disgarding of the 16" and 24" centre roundels. This saw a reduction in size of
all C47 roundels from 48" overall to 36" overall and on the Hastings upper main plane from 72" to 54" overall, thus bringing them to 12" and 18" centres respectively
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Post by davidd on May 30, 2020 18:33:08 GMT 12
As you can see, the cost of these decals was pretty outrageous for the day. One thousand decals for 382 pounds! I mean, how hi-tech are decals for God's sake! To give some indication of the value of the pound at about this time, my father purchased a brand new Austin A55 Cambridge (1960 model), two-tone pale grey and a rather pale sort of olive green, and it cost about 650 pounds. These decals may have been heavy duty type, but still outrageously expensive. Typical of a local manufacturer to charge the highest price they could get away with (I imagine the manufacturer thought, "They probably won't agree to that, but we can always lower the price a bit and it won't matter", and naturally the naïve Government says :"That's OK!") But then civilian firms have been doing this to the military for centuries, probably back to ancient Egypt.
David D
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 30, 2020 19:51:40 GMT 12
Very interesting. And yes, I can see the introduction of the Kiwi roundel must have been most welcome for several reasons.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jun 2, 2020 19:01:46 GMT 12
This photo shows pilots of No. 14 (Fighter) Squadron performing a mock scramble for the camera at RNZAF Station Whenuapai in 1943. What I found interesting when I zoomed in is within the row of Kittyhawks in the background, two have distinctly wavy demakation lines where the camouflage meets the Sky undersides. LINK
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Post by agalbraith on Jun 2, 2020 19:34:01 GMT 12
That probably means they were the 'K's that were delivered Dave?
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jun 2, 2020 19:58:54 GMT 12
Quite possibly. Although were the No. 14 Squadron P-40K's not supposedly Olive Drab? These are Dark Earth and Dark Green...
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Post by davidd on Jun 3, 2020 10:57:32 GMT 12
Dave, they ARE the P-40Ks, and so far as is known, pretty well ALL these aircraft were repainted (by RNZAF, probably at Hobsonville after assembly) in the fancy new colour scheme incorporating the new blue grey colour with the wavy demarcation line, and possibly the original factory dark green (American version, not necessarily matching RAF colour.) This photograph probably taken on same date that all those air-to air shots were taken of 14 Squadron pilots cavorting about in their old P-40Es - I have that date somewhere, from Quill's logbook I think.
So this photo dates from about March/April 1943, and it would have been very shortly after this that the first group of aircraft departed for "the forward area" (in this case to Waipapakauri - Norfolk Island - New Caledonia - Espiritu Santo). Have you identified the two pilot in the bottom picture yet? Pretty certain that is Stan Quill on right. Also on the right hand side of the first photograph you can see P-40Es (with short fuselage) which of course were never taken overseas, were regarded by RNZAF at this point as "semi-obsolete", while the new K's on left were the ones for overseas service.
David D
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Post by shorty on Jun 3, 2020 13:33:12 GMT 12
Also interesting about that photo is that of the fourteen feet only two are in contact with the ground and they are all running away from the aircraft (maybe the Joe" wagon has just arrived?)!
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Post by baz62 on Jun 3, 2020 13:53:14 GMT 12
That probably means they were the 'K's that were delivered Dave? Good catch Ants I knew you'd know.  |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jun 3, 2020 15:51:21 GMT 12
This photograph probably taken on same date that all those air-to air shots were taken of 14 Squadron pilots cavorting about in their old P-40Es - I have that date somewhere, from Quill's logbook I think. 5th of March 1943, Stan Quill flew NZ1010 with Leo White in the back. |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jun 3, 2020 16:20:33 GMT 12
So this photo dates from about March/April 1943, and it would have been very shortly after this that the first group of aircraft departed for "the forward area" (in this case to Waipapakauri - Norfolk Island - New Caledonia - Espiritu Santo). Well yes the first attempt was of course on the 26th of March 1943, when the first echelon of No. 14 Squadron ended up on the beach/in the sea at New Caledonia. The first successful ferry flight to Santo was over the 4th to the 9th of April 1943. Have you identified the two pilot in the bottom picture yet? Pretty certain that is Stan Quill on right. I agree that is Quill. This photo appeared on the cover and inside a are small book by Peter Norman about the history of No. 14 Squadron and I am pretty sure Peter identifies all the pilots in his caption, however it's one of those small thin books that tend to vanish on a bookshelf, and my hunt for the book just now failed to locate it I'm afraid. Also on the right hand side of the first photograph you can see P-40Es (with short fuselage) which of course were never taken overseas, were regarded by RNZAF at this point as "semi-obsolete", while the new K's on left were the ones for overseas service. David D But are they all K's on the left? Some do not have the wavy demarcation so did only some get that wave? My comment earlier about the K's regards a previous discussion on the forum where some were adamant they only wore Olive Drab upper sides in the Pacific, where others suggested they may have been camouflaged. So if they had just received nice new green/blue-grey camo as seen here on the 5th of March, would they have been repainted again before the 26th when they started heading north to the Pacific? I doubt it. Or repainted at Santo? Guadalcanal? And when? We have seen these wavy line aircraft in photos taken allegedly at Guadalcanal so I'd say that it's almost sure that some green/blue-grey wavy line P-40K's did serve there and later the fleet got a repaint to OD/NG. Also what colour are their spinners on the distant left aircraft here? RAF Dark Green? The one in the foreground with the Sky spinner is reasonably worn looking so must be a P-40E. |
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