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Post by davidd on Jul 3, 2020 18:06:42 GMT 12
Some dodgy information in the article linked to the thread two above this one. PV-1s and PV-2s flying met flights up until 1948? No way, all over by earl/mid 1946, and the PV-2s, although ferried to New Zealand in about March/April 1945, were ferried back to Hawaii less than 2 months later. The RNZAF always used the straight B-34 designation, never added the "R" (for restricted) prefix, that was used by the USAAF. Also some very dodgy information (that is, very wrong) on RNZAF operational employment of the type.
David D
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Post by agalbraith on Jul 6, 2020 21:38:59 GMT 12
Found these interesting.... Looks like the (or some) were gradually sprayed silver during their active service? Notice 5761 in the foreground what appears partial silver over the cammouflage (what would that have been? Green/grey over light blue??) There appears another in the background in the same state. Then the last photo.....all over silver. Interesting to me anyway    |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jul 6, 2020 22:01:14 GMT 12
Yes that is indeed interesting to see that transitional scheme. The Vampire at Ashburton Aviation Museum has that RAF camouflage scheme if you want to see the colours.  From HERE |
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Post by davidd on Jul 7, 2020 7:41:35 GMT 12
Those camouflaged Vampires were received in about 1955/56, had flown with RAF in Germany I believe. The RNZAF commented at the time that there was no hurry to repaint them if the existing finish was in good condition (which apparently it was). I think there were only 3 or 4 aircraft in this camouflage, interestingly all with consecutive RNZAF serials. They were just one of those freakish things, normal aircraft camouflaged for no apparent reason, it was all to do with circumstances on the other side of the world. They were probably all totally re-sprayed in the silver finish within a year or so.
David D
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jul 7, 2020 14:50:02 GMT 12
This one surprised me. I had no idea they ever placed Sunderlands inside that hangar at Hobsonville. Obviously the rudder and fin were removed to get it in. So why was it in there? Was it for deep maintenance? Or was it storage? I thought the maintenance was done in the purpose built Short flying boat hangar on the wet apron down below. The caption reads: "Hobsonville Officers versus Sergeants rugby match at RNZAF Station Hobsonville. Officers team being driven to the field, wrapped up in paper on the back of a Queen Mary transporter. Sunderland in a hangar behind." From HERE A crop to see up closer  |
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Post by shorty on Jul 7, 2020 17:22:18 GMT 12
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Post by Peter Lewis on Jul 7, 2020 23:22:05 GMT 12
This one surprised me. I had no idea they ever placed Sunderlands inside that hangar at Hobsonville. Obviously the rudder and fin were removed to get it in. So why was it in there? Was it for deep maintenance? Or was it storage? I thought the maintenance was done in the purpose built Short flying boat hangar on the wet apron down below. That was the storage hangar, Number 3 hangar, in the upper part of Hobsonville. From memory, there were four retired Sunderlands in there in the early 60s, one of which was NZ4108 that was later sold to Ansett and became VH-BRF They were held and curated as reserve aircraft.  |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jul 7, 2020 23:37:05 GMT 12
Interesting. That hangar was originally build for Vincents. I had no idea anything as big as the Sunderland was placed in there, ad I'll bet they never dreamed such possibilities when they first built it too.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 13, 2020 9:41:34 GMT 12
It is known that the Kiwi roundel was introduced to the RNZAF fleet in 1970 but these shots of the trial of the new roundel concept are from 1969. And it's on backwards to the way it was later adopted, the kiwi always should face forward. Trial 'Kiwi' roundel on No. 42 Squadron Dakota NZ3553. RNZAF Base Ohakea. OhG2198-69 and OhG2199-69   |
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Post by tbf25o4 on Aug 13, 2020 14:24:55 GMT 12
Dave, if you look closely at the roundel my guess is that it is a template painted onto paper or something similar and temporarily pasted over the centre of the roundel. you can just see
the inner circle of the standard markings at the left centre.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 17, 2020 11:30:59 GMT 12
Possibly, of they have not painted up to the chinagraphed line maybe.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2020 13:50:48 GMT 12
Dave, if you look closely at the roundel my guess is that it is a template painted onto paper or something similar and temporarily pasted over the centre of the roundel. you can just see the inner circle of the standard markings at the left centre. I agree, you can see the shadow between paper and skin at the lower left quadrant of the roundel, where white meets blue. |
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Post by Barnsey on Aug 17, 2020 14:02:45 GMT 12
That kiwi isn't painted - the rivet lines are blocked over with the medium (paper or card) used for the demo, and you can see the tape holding it on.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 17, 2020 19:01:14 GMT 12
Oh yes, you can indeed see the tape. Thanks guys.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 21, 2020 17:34:33 GMT 12
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Post by shorty on Aug 21, 2020 17:58:25 GMT 12
The "Kiwi "roundel was a mock up to visualize the possible appearance and proportions. The kiwi was modelled on the one that was on the 2 shilling coin. The fact that it was facing backward (by modern standards) was of no consequence to the exercise which was merely to see how it would appear within a roundel to try and persuade Air Staff. I am not sure but the artist may have been a F/S Taylor. It was covered in an AHSNZ journal
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Post by davidd on Aug 21, 2020 19:42:53 GMT 12
Three interesting details appear on this 2 OTU Vincent/Vilde which highlight some things I was previously unaware of. Note the additional "landing" wires which seem to run from the upper end of the forward cabane struts to a point on leading edge of lower mainplanes midway between lower ends of interplane struts and the struts which more-or-less "mirror" the cabane struts. Also interesting is that all the flying and landing wires have the protective "acorns" where they cross each other, to prevent the vibrating aerofoil sections from inflicting damage on each other. Nothing unusual about the acorns, but they do demonstrate that all the landing/flying "wires" are positioned along two parallel planes. There are also quite a lot of bracing wires amongst those cabane struts too, but fortunately these probably did not represent too much of a hazard to the crew should they be required to bale out (rear cockpit gave better chances), but pilot might have preferred to take his chances by making a forced landing! Looking at the photograph again, I notice there are quite a few extra round "blobs" in the image, about the same size as the "acorns", but I am certain they are merely "imperfections" on the negative.
Another detail rarely remarked upon is that the Mk. IV Vildes, and practically all Vincents used the "modern" idea of trim tabs for setting the trim of the aircraft - earlier machines had the adjustable tailplane, as shown in the famous Frank Munger drawing. The pair of trim tabs on the Ohakea aircraft are pretty obvious in the above photograph, and for this reason I suggest that this aircraft is a Vincent.
I would also like to nominate yellow as the overall colour of this aircraft, which was standard for most dedicated drogue towers in RNZAF by about 1942/43 (meaning Gordons, Vincent/Vildes, and Harvards at this time), although not all such received the scheme. The visible fuselage roundel and finflash are of the RAF "C" type, while the upper wing roundel visible MAY be a "B" type. Finally, I believe there is a coloured band painted around the rear fuselage just forward of the tailplane. Such markings were suggested in some of the old files on RNZAF aircraft markings and finishes, and this seems to be pretty strong evidence that the suggestion was acted upon. Reason for such a marking was to bring the attention of aircrew in the vicinity that this aircraft was a drogue tower, and should accordingly be given a wide berth! However I hesitate to nominate a candidate colour for this band, for obvious reasons.
If anybody can produce further images of Vincent/Vildes with the additional landing wires, I would like to see them - perhaps it was a later modification introduced for structural safety reasons?
Edit: Have located true purpose for those additional "landing" wires; in fact they are correctly designated as "Bombing" wires, and were only fitted to aircraft when they were fitted with the outer wing bomb carriers, which were only capable of carrying lighter bombs, 20 pounders and the like. I think that the additional wires were intended to back up other wires when bombs were actually being carried, but probably left in place until the carriers were removed. The inboard carriers were designed to mount 250 and 500 pounders.
David D
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Post by shorty on Aug 21, 2020 20:38:16 GMT 12
There is a photo of Vildie NZ123 (with Ansons in the background) which shows the additional wire
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Post by baz62 on Aug 22, 2020 18:30:54 GMT 12
I would also like to nominate yellow as the overall colour of this aircraft, which was standard for most dedicated drogue towers in RNZAF by about 1942/43 (meaning Gordons, Vincent/Vildes, and Harvards at this time), although not all such received the scheme. Wow that's a lot of yellow! |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 22, 2020 19:08:17 GMT 12
Yellow goodness, Baz!
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