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Post by hrvd1068 on Oct 4, 2022 20:53:40 GMT 12
Thats very cool i was only working on vampire nz5711 a few hours ago.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 18, 2022 10:50:00 GMT 12
This photo was posted today by Matthew, a Tiger Moth seemingly from No. 3 Elementary Flying Training School at RNZAF Station Harewood, but note the rudder seems to be a different colour (red?) from the rest of the aircraft (yellow?). A crop: LINKMUS1101714 Tiger Moth NZ813 'R1', from No. 3 Elementary Flying Training School, taxiing past an open hangar door at RNZAF Station Harewood.
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Post by tbf2504 on Oct 18, 2022 11:48:38 GMT 12
It may be because the rudder is left-hand down a bit and this side is in shadow, see the forward cowling for a similar shading
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Post by scrooge on Oct 18, 2022 12:07:15 GMT 12
left foot, to the stops...
But yes, shadow due to being deflected seems reasonable
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Post by davidd on Oct 18, 2022 13:51:14 GMT 12
This photograph must have fooled many people for years (including me!) It was actually published (in "The Press") in what I thought was about late 1940, or perhaps late 1941 - but the well-dressed personnel in foreground and the lowness of the snow in background argues otherwise, more like mid-year in fact.
The strangely shaped "code letter/number" appearing aft of the roundel was probably the first attempt by 3 EFTS to adopt a distinctive method of identifying their aircraft at a greater distance than would be possible with the serial number (obvious in the photo). Later, by 1942 they must have adopted a new system, but with full camouflage, and by 1943 they would have been back in overall yellow with a large "code number" (unrelated to serial number) carried on both sides of engine cowling, and also under lower mainplanes, facing fore and aft for readability. These "code numbers" were marked by thin "gaps" in the appropriate places (not visible due to distance in photo here, but visible in other close-ups) are certain proof that they were using crude stencils for the job by then.
However initially I could not imagine that the snowy mountains visible in background could possibly be the Southern Alps, and still have trouble with it, but it certainly is NOT the Port Hills in the other direction, so must be the Alps. They say that on NW days, the mountains can rise considerably in stature, but I would love to see that (perhaps I haven't looked hard enough for long enough in the past). Maybe also a cameraman with a lens that could give same effect.
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Post by baz62 on Oct 22, 2022 6:56:10 GMT 12
Thats a great photo!
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Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 22, 2022 7:18:04 GMT 12
I am not 100% convinced by the theory put above that the rudder is merely on an angle and in shadow. I have been looking at other yellow Tigers trying to find another one with a similar angle of full sunshine on its tail and see if it has such a distinctly darker shade to it. Below is the best I have found, and the rudder looks even more kicked over, yet it's about as bright as the rest of the machine. I still suspect the rudder on NZ813 is a different colour, maybe silver, or red, or something.
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Post by davidd on Oct 22, 2022 8:48:05 GMT 12
I am in no doubt that the rudder in question is a perfectly normal yellow-doped one, just deflected sufficient to cast a light shadow from the sun almost directly in line with the aircraft's fuselage centreline. The apparent difference between the shadow from the tailplane (and wings) and the rudder is that the latter has a hint of sunlight caused by the almost perfect alignment of rudder with the sun, whereas other shadows are fully developed, no "bleeding'. The "bleeding" effect can also be seen on the engine cowling, which tapers towards the spinner, thus not reflecting the sun's rays as much as fuselage sides immediately behind it. Also interesting to compare apparent difference in shading between undersurfaces of upper and lower mainplanes, with lower one darker than upper because latter has advantage of additional light reflected off upper surface of its lower companion (hope I have not confused everyone with this rather clumsy statement!) And grass is a poor reflector of sun light (or any light for that matter).
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Post by tbf2504 on Oct 22, 2022 8:53:36 GMT 12
I agree with you Davide. If you compare the above photo and the original one, then the sun position is in two different places looking at the shadow cast on the forward cowlings.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 22, 2022 11:20:53 GMT 12
I am just covering my bases, because people told me it was merely shadow on the rudders of the 2SFTS Oxfords too when I first raised that, and I have since proven it to be coloured paint, not shadow.
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Post by camtech on Oct 23, 2022 21:27:08 GMT 12
Interesting looking at the latest offerings of Avro 504K 1965 upside down. I note the serial appears to be marked as G 1965. I have a note of an accident to H1965 1 Feb 1926 during a refresher course. WgG1313-73 by Les Billcliff, on Flickr
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Post by camtech on Oct 23, 2022 21:35:43 GMT 12
Also note that the three crash photos are attributed to different pilots.
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Post by Peter Lewis on Oct 23, 2022 22:00:55 GMT 12
Avro H1965 was, after 1924, serialed '1965-G'. Although issued to the Canterbury Aviation Company prior to its NZ military service, it was never allotted a G-NZxx registration.
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Post by camtech on Oct 24, 2022 8:13:02 GMT 12
Avro H1965 was, after 1924, serialed '1965-G'. Although issued to the Canterbury Aviation Company prior to its NZ military service, it was never allotted a G-NZxx registration. Thanks for clarifying that, Peter.
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Post by errolmartyn on Oct 25, 2022 4:43:54 GMT 12
Interesting looking at the latest offerings of Avro 504K 1965 upside down. I note the serial appears to be marked as G 1965. I have a note of an accident to H1965 1 Feb 1926 during a refresher course. WgG1313-73 by Les Billcliff, on Flickr A photo exists of H1965 taken in August 1924 that shows it carrying its original RAF wartime scheme. G-1965 is of the same aircraft but in the later overall silver scheme adopted by the NZPAF’s 504Ks. A guess on my part, but given that letters G and H are adjacent to one another on a typewriter, it seems to me likely that G was accidentally typed on a NZPAF instruction about the new scheme instead of the genuine H. Cheers, Errol
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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 3, 2022 21:55:20 GMT 12
This is an interesting photo which appeared in the Evening Post newspaper dated the 22nd of October 1935, and it also appeared on lots of other newspapers around New Zealand that week. In all of them there is no sign of any struts or top wings. A few days earlier a photo of a Vildebeest in a crate appeared and then slightly after a photo of a Vildebeest fuselage sitting on its wheels after being assembled at King Edward Barracks in central Christchurch, ready to go to Wigram. I suspect that it got there and had the lower wings assembled but they had not yet rigged the top wings before the photo was taken - but the pilots were still keen to have the brand new huge bomber as their backdrop. I wonder if there's a decent version of this group photo in the Wigram archive. The Vildebeest Monoplane.
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Post by curtiss on Nov 4, 2022 8:51:30 GMT 12
No, those were the Mk. IIA's apparently (actually only a small proportion of them, such as 1046, 1047, and 1070), the fate of latter being mentioned in the "big book". I think these rear fuselage "upgrades" were incorporated in the 1950s, with new rear fuselages from the USA. Some MKIII aircraft had the wooden rear fuselage as well , NZ1074 to NZ1079 inclusive. Maybe more.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 7, 2022 17:54:59 GMT 12
I love this shot. It is dated "Circa 1938" and shows the Airmen's Mess at RNZAF Station Wigram. If this was 1938 then it is possibly every Airman on the station at the time in this photo. I wonder if some of them might be members of the Christchurch (Territorial) Squadron, or if they are all regular force members. In note too a few in there in civilian clothes. The more I look, the more I see. It looks like the Mess staff including some Sergeants are all standing down the back of the hall, and note the chap with the cheery grin with the milk jug on his head! Classic. Also the chap on the left seems to be pointing a big light to help the photographer. Most of the faces are recognisable but now there is probably no-one left to recognise them, sadly. So many look worried for some reason. I am not sure why but I really like this shot. So many of these young AC's and LAC's will have gone onto become the backbone of the wartime RNZAF as S/NCO's. WgF125 LINK
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Post by camtech on Nov 7, 2022 18:30:21 GMT 12
Interesting photo. All appear to be in SD uniform and I note at the far end are seated. Wonder if it is either a Xmas type function or some other formal meal. Seems a lot of personnel for Wigram pre war.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 7, 2022 19:05:35 GMT 12
That was standard working dress back then. Battledress was not introduced into the RNZAF till well into the war, a few years later. They would have had overalls but the SD type uniform was for everyday usage.
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