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Post by tbf2504 on Mar 10, 2023 9:44:36 GMT 12
A harvard was alloted to Woodbourne to the HQ Flight for continuation training for qualified pilots in ground jobs at the Station/Base. When we went through Boys School in 1964 every Boy was given a flight in the "Station Hack" as it was known. I can remember my flight very well as there was a strong wind blowing down the wairau valley and the pilot throttled back to a point where we appeared to be stationary!
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Post by camtech on Mar 10, 2023 11:46:36 GMT 12
Ditto, Paul, the following year was the same. Can't recall the pilot. My second Harvard flight was at Wigram the following year, with Ted Arundel. I was the ballast for a test flight, which we did, then Ted flew out to Birdlings Flat area and ran through his aerobatic routine several times, then talked me through a few turns and a loop. Luckily this was before lunch!
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Post by tbf2504 on Mar 10, 2023 12:13:20 GMT 12
If I can recall correctly the Harvard at Woodbourne in 1964 was NZ1009. This Harvard was important to the late Cliff Jenks as it was the one he soloed in at Wigram and his car number plate was "NZ1009"
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Post by xbaggy on Mar 10, 2023 14:52:59 GMT 12
First half of 1966 Airman Cadets were taken for their first flight in the base Harvard flown by S/LDR Swap who was an ACS education officer. Halfway thru that year the Harvard was exchanged for Devon NZ1820 in which I did my flight.
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Post by NZ1009 on Mar 10, 2023 16:45:08 GMT 12
In 2016 David Duxford posted the following re Harvards at Woodbourne 1952-1966:
Have following notes on allotment of Harvards to and from Woodbourne from 1952 to 54, (probably Harvards at WB 54 to 59), then 1960s, for duty as station "hack": also some movements of Harvards to Hobsonville as station hack. So NZ1083, 1010. 1009 at Woodbourne. However there could have been earlier and later aircraft at both stations. I think there was also a station Harvard at Taieri in late 1950s after the TAF Squadron was disbanded and prior to station closing.
21/10/52; First Harvard (NZ1055) allotted to Station Woodbourne as “hack” aircraft in post-WW2 era. This particular Harvard was replaced by NZ1004 (the last of the Mk. 2s in service) in June 1954.
29/2/60 (Technical, No. 1 RD); Harvard NZ1083 removed from storage at 1 RD and allotted to Woodbourne as Station hack (A502 dated 11/2/60, on 7/3/60; next see under date 14/2/63.)
22/6/61; Harvard NZ1010 allotted from Woodbourne (storage) to Woodbourne “as replacement for NZ1083” per A633 of this date, “despatched 27/6". (Ref. Allotment register; note, this a/c almost immediately to Ohakea as temporary replacement for NZ1014 on 10/7/61 (A637 of 5/7), as 1014 sent to WB on 14/7 for demagnetisation (A638).
14/2/63; Harvard Mk. 2A* NZ1009 allotted from Wigram to Woodbourne for establishment. Harvard Mk. 3* NZ1083 allotted from Woodbourne to Wigram for establishment, both effected 7/3/63. (Ref. Allotment register, A863, A864 respectively.)
4/11/63; Change over of Harvard at Hobsonville. Mk. 2A* NZ1013 allotted from Hobsonville to Woodbourne for major servicing, Mk. 3* NZ1076 from Wigram to Hobsonville, both despatched 11/11/63. (Ref. Allotment register, however below see under date 5/12/63.)
11/11/63; (MR&SU, Hobsonville). Flight Lieutenant Lambert picked up our replacement Harvard from Woodbourne, NZ1076.” (Ref. Unit history, presume replaced NZ1013.)
5/12/63; Harvard NZ1013 allotted from Woodbourne to Hobsonville for establishment, effected 17/12. (Ref. Allotment register, A953, however see under date 9/12/63.)
9/12/63; Harvard Mk.2* (3* I think!) NZ1076 allotted from Hobsonville to Wigram, for IRR storage; was this the end of permanent station aircraft for Hobby? (Ref. Allotment register, A958)
20/5/66; Devon NZ1820 allotted from Wigram to Woodbourne for establishment, effected 1/6/66. Harvard NZ1009 allotted from Woodbourne to Wigram for LTS, despatched 30/6. (Ref. Allotment register, A312, A313)
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Post by tbf2504 on Mar 10, 2023 16:55:31 GMT 12
David, NZ1013 was still at Hobsonville in 1964 when the Air Reconnaissance Flight was established there on 29 May 1964. It was used to support the Austers in Army exercises and also Naval co-operation. I suspect it was re-alloted when No.3BSS came into being on 28 April 1965 Admin Inst 23/1965
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Post by kevsmith on Mar 10, 2023 17:31:01 GMT 12
Re the Freighter ZK-AYG in the photo in Antonio’s post on March 3rd, there are two possibilities as to the approximate date of the photo. AYG was damaged on the 3rd Feb 1954 at Woodbourne and subsequently shipped back to Weston-super-Mare for rebuild. It was flown back to NZ apparently arriving on the 31st March 1955. It was rebuilt without the cabin windows so as this picture shows cabin windows it is more likely to have been after the first accident in Feb 1954 when the acft was being stripped at Woodbourne for return to the UK. The 2nd accident was on the 21st August 1955 when the acft finished up in the Taylor River after a single engine flypast (prop feathered) and the live engine failed to respond when the throttle was opened for the subsequent single engine climb away. The damage was reported as undercarriage torn off, nose doors badly damaged and fuselage twisted. So with the windows still visible in the picture it seems likely the photo is between the 3rd of Feb 1954 and circa 23rd June 1954 and location Woodbourne.
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Post by oj on Mar 10, 2023 18:15:06 GMT 12
"When we went through Boys School in 1964 every Boy was given a flight ..."
Yeah, right! Not in 1962. Only a few got that experience for BES19 Course. It was very poorly administrated. I never got a chance. You would think they could offer a catch-up to those who missed out when we were on our trade training courses at 2TTS Wigram but that was a dead duck.
Later, when I was based at Ohakea for a total of 4 years and worked extensively in the 42 Sqdn hangar (that contained the Electrical Section) I was hoping for a chance and did ask several times. Most senior NCO's would have had a big influence in enabling this type of thing for younger airmen by massaging the system but they were not interested in mentoring to that extent. So I never got a flight in a Harvard, ever! Bar-stewards!
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Post by falcon124 on Mar 10, 2023 18:41:10 GMT 12
My father got his Harvard flight with a friend back in 1963 in Harvard 1013 while he was still crewing the Sunderlands.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 15, 2023 11:15:15 GMT 12
Check out how worn the paint is on this No. 4 (General Reconnaissance) Squadron Hudson is. I have never seen a photo of an RNZAF Hudson in such a tatty condition. I wonder if it is the NZ-made paint that was sprayed over top of the factory paint peeling away. MUS0801311 Two unknown men standing in front of a Hudson. Unknown location in Fiji. Handwritten on the reverse "The kite we came back from Nandi to Nausori."
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Post by Antonio on Mar 15, 2023 15:01:52 GMT 12
Interesting too is the paint peeling off the (later applied) fuselage bars.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 15, 2023 15:53:01 GMT 12
Yes, that must be the dodgy quality paint too. But you can understand the paint peeling there when you think how much coral dust and sand and grit must have been blasted along the fuselage from the two big engines on the rough Pacific strips.
Also as the RNZAF had no trained painters in WWII and all the painting was done by whoever was available, I am sure the prep work for a new coat or new markings will have been minimal; and likely the importance of such was probably not really understood by most.
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Post by denysjones on Mar 15, 2023 19:12:39 GMT 12
Note also that the tubes for the barrels of the fixed forward guns have been removed and the apertures either plugged or faired over. I don't recall having seen that before.
Likewise I don't detect de-icer boots on the leading edge, I know they wouldn't have got much use in the islands but why use manpower time and effort to remove them?
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 15, 2023 20:01:42 GMT 12
Hmm, now that you mention the lack of guns I wonder if it is one of the ones converted to a C-63 transport with No. 40 or 41 Squadron and that colour peeling off is olive drab.
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Post by davidd on Mar 16, 2023 15:07:56 GMT 12
I think Dave is on the right track, this photo shows several clues as to its exact type. Suppressed nose guns, no sign of any ASV equipment, and camouflage paint in very bad state of repair, which appears to be of the dark olive drab type, that is, a single upper-surface colour (not 2 colours in combination). There is no way to judge if turret or side guns were fitted, but highly unlikely I would say. For these reasons, I think this aircraft is almost certainly a "standard" C-63 (sometimes known as a Hudson troop carrier). It is also possible that some of 4 Squadrons operational Hudsons located in Fiji in 1944 received a single colour upper-surface camouflage scheme, and it is suspected that this colour was a well-known US Navy colour generally called blue-grey, which also happened to be the same paint (Material Specification M-485A from memory), as used on our earlier Catalinas (PBY-5s). This type of paint seemed to be very popular with the RNZAF officers (and probably the tradesmen) at Fiji at this time.
About 15 of these aircraft were produced at Rukuhia (1 RD) from about December 1943 onwards, based on the Cyclone-powered Mk. III Hudson (recently withdrawn from the BR Squadrons for the most part, having been replaced on the front line by PV-1 Venturas). The Hudson conversions were made to supplement the very small number of C-47s supplied to RNZAF under Lend-Lease in 1943 and 1944. From some well-known (b&w) photographs, it is known that most of these aircraft were repainted on completion with what appears to be standard USAAF Dark Olive Drab (of which the RNZAF procured a fair amount from the USA at about this time, as well as its "usual partner in crime", USAAF medium grey). It seems that some of our C-47s also received new coats using these paints from 1944 onwards, as well as some of our C-60s (Lodestars) and at least one P-40E (Kittyhawk).
There was certainly a lot of complaining by the RNZAF about the quality of some of the new, locally-made paints (BALM) in late 1943, when it was stated that large amounts of the new paint tended to be stripped off from the flying surfaces, especially on leading edges when aircraft concerned were forced to fly through heavy rain. The paint itself was suspected to be the culprit by the RNZAF; I think some of these failures were described as "spectacular". When the BALM chemist was requested to look into the quality question, he fairly rapidly came to the conclusion that the problem was not the paint at all, but the poor application, which was further detailed to include very poor preparation, poor spraying (and often unsuitable) equipment, incorrect spraying pressures, and tradesmen who were not really tradesmen at all. Dave H has alluded to this state of affairs already. One can only hope that the painting situation improved over time, but the subject photo indicates it may have taken longer to improve the outcome than previously thought.
The notation on reverse of the original photograph certainly provides some cryptic clues, but I think it highly likely this image was taken at Nandi (Nadi) judging by the rugged mountains just visible in background of this photo, which would eliminate Nausori (only other airfield used by RNZAF in Fiji) as the airfield concerned.
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Post by McFly on Mar 16, 2023 15:56:09 GMT 12
Check out how worn the paint is on this No. 4 (General Reconnaissance) Squadron Hudson is. I have never seen a photo of an RNZAF Hudson in such a tatty condition. I wonder if it is the NZ-made paint that was sprayed over top of the factory paint peeling away. MUS0801311 Two unknown men standing in front of a Hudson. Unknown location in Fiji. Handwritten on the reverse "The kite we came back from Nandi to Nausori." Looks like this may be the same aircraft..? ( link) "Image from the Radar Reunion collection.3/4 front view of an RNZAF Hudson. Bougainville.(2014-071.55)"
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 16, 2023 16:15:22 GMT 12
Thanks for that information David. It is interesting considering how many skilled people the RNZAF had who had previous experience in trades in the civilian world, that they did not find within their ranks any panelbeaters or coachbuilders who'd done spray painting in their apprenticeships, or people involved in painting aircraft in civil aviation, and get them to form a small unit that either a) did all the major paint jobs or b) taught other tradesmen the techniques. So strange the Air Force had everything and everyone to do everything, except properly-trained painters till 1949. They even had professional sign writers in their ranks, but no spray painters.
That does look like it may be the same aircraft Marty, or another C-63 with the same poor treatment when it was sprayed.
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Post by Antonio on Mar 16, 2023 18:23:23 GMT 12
And yet most of the C-63 photos that I have seen, the paint appears to be in good condition. WhG1965-44The only 'ropey' aircraft here is a Lodestar
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Post by Antonio on Mar 17, 2023 15:11:48 GMT 12
Speaking of things Hudson & painting, love this shot: PR729 Two ground crew spray-painting roundels under the wing of a Hudson. Believed to be at RNZAF Station Whenuapai. See Contact Magazine, September 1943, page 41.
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Post by davidd on Mar 17, 2023 16:05:07 GMT 12
Yep. I would have to agree, that could well be the same aircraft. Incidentally there was also another "version" (or two?) of the Hudson used by the RNZAF, a "straight" utility version, used almost exclusively by the Utility Flight based at Guadalcanal from early 1944 till late 1945, no turret (so had the counterweight and streamline fairing), no guns of course, and almost certainly no de-icing boots, and no standard colour scheme that we know of. There were about five such aircraft which served in this role in the "forward area", but two of them were also fitted with electric winches for drogue-towing, which was one of the more important tasks allocated to the Utility Flight. These latter aircraft were the ones painted overall yellow, by order of the local (American!) air commander. A photograph of one of these yellow Hudsons used to be displayed on this site, but I believe it was lost when the original photo-storage system was replaced by the present set-up - Dave might remember this photo - it was taken (I think) at Rukuhia, and looked to be almost white, but the serial number could be easily read - it was one of the two drogue towers all right. It also had a very poor representation of the RNZAF wartime roundel - in fact an absolute shocker! There was also a "VIP" Hudson reserved for the use of the AOC, COMZEAIRTAF (although I think originally for AOC, 1 (Islands) Group), whose number I cannot recall at the moment, but it was polished bare metal.
So far as I know, C-63s were only used by 40 Squadron (and 41 Sqdn, to whom all the Lockheed aircraft previously with 40 were transferred in August 1944); don't think any went to the Utility Flight, unless very late in WW2.
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