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Post by baronbeeza on Feb 14, 2021 19:09:33 GMT 12
Looks like it on first page of each document. Airtourer Co-Op? Thanks.  |
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Post by retiredav8r on Feb 14, 2021 19:18:45 GMT 12
PAC hasn't had the Airtourer TC for years, it does however still hold the TC for the CT-4 aircraft and others. Being insolvent doesn't mean the company is closing shop, as the Continued Airworthiness Notice states as one of its conditions: "The conditions for lifting of PAL’s suspension being met and PAL resuming their responsibilities as holder" i.e. can pay there bills.
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Post by baronbeeza on Feb 14, 2021 19:53:24 GMT 12
It was the CT-4 Type Certificate we were discussing.
I was suggesting that the CT-4's in private ownership now may consider a similar deal.
I would imagine the CT-4 and Fletcher Type Certificates would be considered in a different category to the current production aircraft. Perhaps the management, and ownership, may be transferred. Much the same as the Airtourer TC's were basically historical and moved on.
The CAA has given options. I think the older Victa and Airtourer Certificates were picked up by the Airtourer Association.
Perhaps that is a possibility for the CT-4 here also, given the large number now in civilian operation.
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Post by delticman on Feb 14, 2021 19:55:51 GMT 12
May I point out that the company is Pacific Aerospace Ltd. They took over Pacific Aerospace Corporation Ltd in 2006. I have edited this thread. Please, do not make any offensive posts or they will be removed. I missed one earlier and now have had to do a big clean up of the thread. |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 14, 2021 20:59:01 GMT 12
I've fixed the title Ray, thanks for that.
In 2016 when the company set up PAC750XL production in China they told the media they planned to also start building CT-4E's and Expeditions in the Chinese factory too. Did any of them get built? And how many aircraft total have they produced in China? I seem to recall they had a massive contract for 750's.
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Post by The Red Baron on Feb 14, 2021 21:13:48 GMT 12
I think thats long gone,an operator told me recently with an AOG he was quoted at least 6 weeks delivery for a common part.
Theres a whole pile of second hand CT 4's kicking round cant be much demand for them.
Sky diving outfits going belly up all over the place since covid,outlook for XL looks bleak.
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Post by The Red Baron on Feb 14, 2021 21:18:40 GMT 12
They reporrt to have massive orders....they just never turned into paid up sales.
China also took over the Jetpack,thats history too now.
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Post by delticman on Feb 14, 2021 21:44:48 GMT 12
I've fixed the title Ray, thanks for that. In 2016 when the company set up PAC750XL production in China they told the media they planned to also start building CT-4E's and Expeditions in the Chinese factory too. Did any of them get built? And how many aircraft total have they produced in China? I seem to recall they had a massive contract for 750's. It never happened. Even their production of P-750 never happened. Some had a new serial sequence but they were in fact built in Hamilton as knockdowns and then assembled by PAL staff in China. |
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Post by oj on Feb 15, 2021 19:06:19 GMT 12
I don't really know what to say here.It is sad and perplexing. I hope there is someone willing to do some decent investigative journalism as to what has happened, though I do note that some of you have probably already summed it up.
I consider myself fortunate to have worked at all the predecessor companies (with the exception of Air Parts) beginning with AESL in September 1967 through to PACL in 1995.
Those 28 years were very rich in experience, the depth of which cannot be obtained in NZ general aviation today.
Over those years there were naturally many different General Managers and CEO's many of them singularly unremarkable and a few were downright Charlestons, so survival was always difficult. But there was generally a strong core of technically competent middle management and foremen/supervisors
who could carry the flag.
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Post by kiwined on Feb 16, 2021 6:24:45 GMT 12
Seems 50% is owned by Chinese and then 50% by Pacific Aerospace Group which is bunch of Kiwis.
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Post by madmac on Feb 18, 2021 20:18:21 GMT 12
Seems 50% is owned by Chinese and then 50% by Pacific Aerospace Group which is bunch of Kiwis. The directors listed don't seem to reflect that, 3 of 4 have being addresses in the PRC. |
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Post by retiredav8r on Feb 18, 2021 20:40:38 GMT 12
Doesnt matter how many directors are in the PRC, they still only hold 50% of the shares, you could have 1000 directors, again they would only hold 50%.
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Post by madmac on Feb 18, 2021 20:45:59 GMT 12
Doesnt matter how many directors are in the PRC, they still only hold 50% of the shares, you could have 1000 directors, again they would only hold 50%. You are assuming there are not other legal mechanisms in place, such as a loan against the shares. |
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Post by oj on Feb 25, 2021 14:57:13 GMT 12
I got some oil last night from a senior salaried staff member at the RAeS monthly meeting.
He tells us that they have not been paid for two months nor for any of their leave owing.
They are locked out and had to forfeit their keys.
The company is for sale by the receivers.
The two 50% shareholders (NZ and China)are just unsecured creditors at the end of the queue any may not realise anything financially in the receivers payouts.
There is no danger of any IP or assets being taken to China.
nothing more is known by staff at this stage; they do not know whether they are employed or not.
Anyone else know anything more?
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Post by Bruce on Feb 26, 2021 14:28:42 GMT 12
I feel very sorry for all the staff involved. Having been through the receivership of a small and slightly dodgy airline in the early 2000s, working for the receiver, its a very stressful and eye opening business. Receivers are extremely hard nosed about getting the money for the client, although staff and the IRD always come at the top of the pecking list. Often there isnt enough after the sale of assets to cover even that. There will be no consideration of historical status or the impact on the NZ economy - Its a really brutal world! I cant see any chance of it being sold as a complete going concern, they simply arent selling aeroplanes. Thoughts are with all the Aerospace crew...
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Post by mit on Mar 2, 2021 11:50:50 GMT 12
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2021 21:03:29 GMT 12
Thanks for sharing that Mit, an interesting read.
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Post by oj on Mar 3, 2021 21:26:03 GMT 12
Is it possible to view a list of the NZ shareholders by individual names?
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Post by AussieBob on Mar 3, 2021 22:15:53 GMT 12
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Post by madmac on Mar 3, 2021 22:34:01 GMT 12
Its a simple search of the NZ companies register and then a bit complicated.
PAL is half owned by PACIFIC AEROSPACE GROUP LIMITED
Which is 2/3's owned by ICV FINANCE LIMITED which is owned by Nicsha Zelko FARAC
The remaining 1/3 is owned by PAHL LIMITED
Half of which is owned by Alan REICHELMANN, Jacqui SPICE, Joshua CAMP
The remaining half is owned by EL CAMPO TRUSTEE COMPANY LIMITED
Which is owned by Damian CAMP & Sharlene CAMP
That works out at
FARAC with 1/3
REICHELMANN, SPICE, & J CAMP at 1/36 each
D & S CAMP with 1/12
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