2GR Squadron Nelson Hudson codes matched to serials?

[markrogers]

Hi there,
I'm looking for resources that would help me find and match the 2GR Lockheed Hudson serials with their UH codes when they were at Nelson. 
So far I've been able to get most if not all the Hudsons that were at Nelson.....



NZ2007         (Lost in fatal crash)

NZ2008 UH-Y  (later transferred to No 4SQN, Fiji)

NZ2009 UH-Y  (replaces NZ2008)

NZ2010 UH-X

NZ2011 UH-S

NZ2014 UH-W  (destroyed in ground loop accident) first Hudson delivered to Nelson, 28/9/41

NZ2024

NZ2027 UH-N

NZ2028

NZ2029 UH-O  (lost in accident in Tasman Bay, 29/9/1942)

NZ2030

NZ2031 UH-H  (restored and on display at MOTAT)

NZ2032 UH-B

NZ2036 UH-A

NZ2017 UH-Z  (turretless) arrived Nelson 13/3/42, a swap for turret-equipped NZ2008 with No 4 SQN in Fiji.

NZ2046 UH-P  Became Isnt61 at Nelson 1943 (overstressed mainframe and skin wrinkles on upper surfaces), later Inst108 Feb 1945. SOC Feb 1945.

NZ2047 UH-K  W/O 1943 after P-40 collided with it in taxy accident

NZ2048 UH-M  Became Isnt62 at Nelson 1943 (overstressed mainframe and skin wrinkles on upper surfaces), later Inst109 Feb 1945. SOC Feb 1945

NZ2066 UH-F  Missing on return trip from Nausori to Whenuapai Aug 20, 1944. No trace of aircraft found

NZ2067 UH-C  SOC Oct 1948

NZ2068 UH-U  Converted to C-63 transport 1944. WFU by Jun 1945. SOC Nov 1947

NZ2069 UH-J  Converted to C-63 transport 1944. WFU by Jun 1945. SOC Nov 1947

NZ2075          Converted to C-63 transport 1944. WFU by Jun 1945. SOC Mar 1948.

NZ2083 UH-W (replacement for NZ2014), SOC Mar 1948.

NZ2089 UH-O (Replaces NZ2029) Arrived Sept 1942, ex 3 Sqdn. SOC May 1949.


NZ2007 was lost in a fatal low level controlled crash into a bluff in fog at Westhaven near Collingwood with the loss of all the crew sadly.

NZ2014 was lost in a groundloop, burnt out when the bombs exploded. No-one hurt but left a large crater! Crater was visible for many years after the war.
NZ2029 was lost in Tasman Bay waters when it flew too low over the sea and the props struck the sea. Unfortunately only one of the crew survived, the other crew members perished from hypothermia sadly. A propeller was recovered some years ago by a diving club I think and is on display somewhere.


I found a photo online of a 2GR Hudson coded UH-N but was unable to read its serial.
Also another one coded 'X' in a film of RNZAF Hudsons at Nelson (NZ2014 was in it also) but was unable to discern it's serial. Also noted that they didn't have roundels on the underwings - they were added later I think as these were early roundel types on the fuselage when they arrived in NZ, not sure if there were any on the wing topsides either.

I saw a resource online where there were details of the codes matched to the serial numbers, but unfortunately I did not think to copy the details or book mark the website. Have been searching for it ever since.

Apparently there were up to 25 Hudsons in 2GR service, but 18 were on strength in maximum numbers. I presume some aircraft were in maintenance at times, and some were lost in accidents.

Any assistance would be helpful, thanks. It's something I'm doing for a bit of historical research just for my own interest as I've lived in Nelson most of my life and have grown up knowing that Nelson had been a RNZAF base.

[Dave Homewood]

The only ones I've so far identified are:

NZ2008 UH-Y

NZ2014 UH-W

NZ2031 UH-H

NZ2032 UH-B

NZ2066 UH-F

NZ2083 UH-W

NZ2089 UH-O

[markrogers]

Thanks Dave, that helps. UH-Y and UH-O have been added to the list. Also have found out that NZ2029 was the Hudson that ditched in the Tasman Bay.

[markrogers]

Found a thread here started by Dave long ago

rnzaf.proboards.com/thread/26103/asked-rnzaf-lockheed-hudsons

That is the exact film I was watching, and yes that is Nelson.

[markrogers]

A new one, identified from a photo

NZ2047   UH-K

[markrogers]

Three more, UH-N, UH-M and UH-X, but their RNZAF serials are unknown and are unreadable in photos

[davidd]

From 2 GR Squadron Operations record Book. Twenty five individual Hudsons known to have been on strength of this squadron at various times, but never more than 18 at any given time.

UH-A NZ2036
UH-B NZ2032
UH-C NZ2067
UH-F NZ2066
UH-H NZ2031
UH-J NZ2069
UH-K NZ2047
UH-M NZ2048
UH-N NZ2027
UH-O NZ2029, lost in accident 29/9/42, replaced by NZ2089 with this letter.
UH-P NZ2046
UH-S NZ2010
UH-U NZ2068, allotted to 9 Sqdn, New Caledonia November 1943, replaced by NZ2075 with this letter.
UH-W NZ2014, lost in accident 27/7/42, replaced by NZ2083 with this letter.
UH-X NZ2011
UH-Y NZ2009
UH-Z (possibly NZ2017, which arrived ex 4 Sqdn 13/3/42.)

Aircraft known to be with 2 Sqdn, but individual letters not known.
NZ2007, possibly used only a single letter, destroyed 16/12/41.
NZ2008, allotted away to 4 Sqdn 16/3/42.
NZ2024, dual control, believed allotted away to 1 Sqdn by 17/12/41.
NZ2028, allotted away to 4 Sqdn 16/2/42.
NZ2030, letter unknown.

Aircraft still with sqdn August 1943 (when being re-equipped with PV-1s); NZ2009, 10, 11, 17, 27, 30, 31, 32, 36, 66, 67, 75, 83, 89. By September 1943 2011, 2027 allotted away; by October remainder allotted away, fully equipped now with PV-1s.

David D

[markrogers]

Thanks David D, that's awesome. Did NZ2009 take up the letter "Y" after NZ2008 "Y" transferred to No.4 Sqn?
The aircraft whose individual letters were unknown would have had any of those letters D,E,G,I,L,Q,T,V perhaps.

[shorty]

Q and I were not normally used as too easily confused

[markrogers]

Thanks shorty.

[davidd]

2 Squadron also had a small number of Oxfords on strength (as did 1 Squadron, and others), although many of these aircraft at Nelson were only on their charge for covered storage in the larger hangars available, and not for squadron use, being part of the national "Reserve" of the type. Of the ones used by the squadrons, some MAY have had code letters allocated, but this is not known for certain. Harvards allotted to Fighter squadrons from about mid-1942 often had code letters, ditto for OTUs of course.

Also be aware that the classic Royal Air Force system of "two letters for unit i/d, one letter for individual aircraft within the unit" were adopted within RNZAF about April 1942, generally only for operational (combat) units, as well as OTU's when they were formed, also Fighter Gunnery School, Gunnery Training School. Most other training units, such as School of GR, etc, did not use these codes, nor did transport units, but they could carry individual letter identification letters fwd or aft of fuselage roundel.

Be aware that, although similar codes are known for No. 1 Sqdn Hudsons (but only about half of them compared to 90% of the 2 Sqdn aircraft), so far only a tiny fraction of codes applied to Nos. 3 and 4 Sqdns Hudsons are known. Of course 3 Sqdn stopped using the full codes, probably as early as November 1942, although they seemed to employ the individual aircraft letter for a quite a while longer, and No. 9 Sqdn Hudsons almost certainly NEVER carried these codes, operating as it was under full American control. This was also the reason that No.3 Squadron stopped using them too, flying from Guadalcanal, and 4 Squadron seems to have been in the act of phasing them out in late 1944 when the type were finally withdrawn from operational service at Nausori, Fiji. However, strangely, all our Catalina units kept using these codes till the end of the war, and afterwards - all a bit odd.
David D

[markrogers]

Thanks David D. I also noted that NZ2011 was both UH-S and UH-X? Why would that be? Change of letters? Yes it's possible some Hudsons had no letters while others had them.
It seems that early on some Hudsons only had a single letter, but later on possibly had the full codes added.

[davidd]

Mark, that UH-S, UH-X identification for 2011 is an error on my part. In my original written list 2010 and 2011 appear one above the other, so when I was transcribing the details, my eyes let me down! Have already amended my post containing the error, so sorry about that, I see the correct identification was previously noted on this thread. After all, vast bulk of this information goes directly back to the same source - 2 Squadron's Operations Record Book (Form 540 unit history in modern language). And you are right that there were earlier forms of identification codes worn on Hudsons prior to April 1942. Both 2 and 4 Squadrons are known to have used single, large code letters, either forward or aft of the fuselage roundel, in various colours. The single letter codes on 4 Squadron aircraft were particularly large, but photographs of these are extremely scarce. Best known photographs of these were taken by the airfield construction unit at Nadi/Nandi in late 1941 or early 1942 (alongside USAAF P-39Ds of 70th Pursuit Sqdn), and there used to be another photo on this site taken at Nadi, no doubt wiped out by the big Photobucket meltdown. Photographs of 9 Sqdn Hudsons are also extremely scarce, but in this unit's early days they seemed (very unusually) to have carried the squadron number on the nose - not very good for security I would have thought!
David D

[Dave Homewood]

Great thread. Whilst I have collected a lot of material and first hand accounts from No. 2 (General Reconnaissance) Squadron for my GR & BR research project over the years, I have not yet managed to copy their ORB, so David's research has added a lot to my knowledge of which Hudson was coded as which on the unit.

Apr 5, 2021 16:15:14 GMT 12 shorty said:

Q and I were not normally used as too easily confused

In what way? They sound too much like U and Y when using the voice? Or because Q looks like O and an I could be confused maybe with an L from a distance?

No. 4 Servicing Unit P-40's definitely used both Q and I as chin codes.

[markrogers]

Thanks David D. Much appreciated. I've added to the list some more comments and added the codes to NZ2010.

[camtech]

Looking back at the original list, I see NZ2046 and 2048 both suffered overstressed mainframe and skin wrinkles. I note that both of these events were recorded at Ohakea within a day of each other. NZ2046 on 20 May 1943 (accident report 25/2/1003) and NZ2048 on 19 May 1943 (accident report 25/2/935). Both aircraft were eventually disposed of via Disposal Authority No 54.

[Dave Homewood]

What were they doing? Was that from some over aggressive manoeuvring in the air?

[camtech]

Probably have to look at the original accident files to see what was going on.

[errolmartyn]

Accident card for NZ2048 (19 May 43, 2 Sqn, at Ohakea) has ‘Probable cause. Pull out at high speed’ & ‘Underlying Cause. Hamhandness’ & ‘Extent of damage. Major repair’.

Accident card for NZ2046 (20 May 43, 2 Sqn, at Ohakea) has ‘Probable cause. Too quick pull-out’ & ‘Underlying Cause. Stunting’ & ‘Extent of damage. Major repair’.

There's just far too much 'Hamhandness' in aviation, don't you think?!

Errol