Logbooks for TEAL Empire Flying Boats

[awarua4047]

Does anybody know if the logbooks for ZK-AMA Aotearoa and ZK-AMC Awarua still exist and if so, where they could be found please? Any assistance would be gratefully received thanks.

[aircraftclocks]

Can not help you with the log books for the 2 aircraft, but I have found an entry in the registers for ZK-AMA on her delivery. This is from the Register of aircraft in and out - Brisbane.

26/8/39 10.45 arrival, Aotearoa ZK-AMA, Line - Tasman, Agent - Qantas, 48000 Gross poundage, 31356 Net poundage, Crew - 6, Nationality - British, Destination - Sydney, Departed 26/8/39

[nz104]

At a guess it might be worth asking Archives New Zealand & see what turns up. Hope that helps a bit.

[aircraftclocks]

Just located the entry for ZK-AMC.

27/3/40 17.35 arrival, AWARUA ZK-AMC, Line - Tasman Empire Airways, Agent - Qantas, 48000 Gross poundage, 31183 Net poundage, Crew - 6, Nationally - UK Brit, Departure 09.00 28/03/40 to Sydney, Place of call - UK via Nth Q'ld p'ts

[aircraftclocks]

Looking in another register, the master for ZK-AMA is listed as Burgess who is British.

[aircraftclocks]

The master for ZK-AMC is listed as Garden who is British.

Looks like both flights staged through Koepang.

[Dave Homewood]

John Burgess and Oscar Garden were both Kiwis.

[thomarse]

I think Kiwis traditionally described their nationality as "British" back then Dave

[Dave Homewood]

Their nationality was British, legally, according to their passports. Till 1949. But they were still Kiwis.

[ErrolC]

Indeed, note 'UK Brit' in entry for ZK-AMC, presumably based on a random official's perception.

[davidd]

Also notice the "poundage" stated for the two flying boats (actually the gross poundage) reads as 4800, which seems to me to be a little understated, - by about a factor of ten. I think that should read 48,000 pounds, normal Max take off weight for the type (Shorts S.30 Empire). I also found this detail stated on the main instrument panel of one of the two NZ boats - this was with the RNZAF Museum at the time, although nobody seemed to be aware of what aircraft it belonged to. I noted the MTOW (and also fact that it was a 4-engined aircraft) so put two and two together and came up with a very likely candidate.

[aircraftclocks]

I had made a typo with the gross weight, which I have now corrected.
When looking at the aircraft registrations, the most represented registrations started with G. So most aircraft were British.
The only nationalities listed seem to be either British or Dutch.
During the war, it was only Pan Am services on service duties.

[awarua4047]

Thanks to everybody for your replies.I searched every know museum and archive I could find, including Air NZ to no avail in my quest to find these logbooks. However the son of the late Captain Christopher Griffiths gave me access to his father’s logbooks which was a wonderful start and When I combined this information with lists from Archives NZ of all flying boat arrivals into Mechanics Bay Auckland for the period 1939-1947 plus lists of Sydney departures from TEAL’s agent in Sydney via Archives Australia for the same period, I was eventually able to piece together the movements records of both ZK-AMA and ZK-AMC. I have written an approx. 550 page history of the 42 Short Bros. C class Empire flying boats including actual movements records for each aircraft After worldwide search I found all the movements records of the British and Australia register members of the fleet. My book will also includes a story on the horseshoe route from Durban to Sydney during the early war years, route schedules, an explanation of the complicated service (flight numbers) use of those aircraft that were transferred to the RAF and RAAF, and TEAL’s operation of their two aircraft for RNZAF and Goernment operation of special flights and lots more! I was given access to the Short Brothers Photographic archive and permission from the current owners to use any of their photos in my book. Consequently, there will be approx. 420 photos many of which have never seen the light of day. Currently my writing is under consideration by an English publisher and when the time is right I’ll let you all know when to expect to see it available. I am confident that my book will be the most comprehensive history of these aircraft and the reader will no doubt be very surprised to see that many “errors” and myths about these aircraft that have been perpetuated throughout the years are finally laid to rest after my research of thousands of original records which has given me the opportunity to “get it right”. I’ll keep you posted!

[planecrazy]

Hi Awarua 4047, while I cannot provide you with a log book I can provide a document from the radio operator's
log book from one of Awarua's more dramatic Tasman Sea flights. Have pm'd you a message.

14/04/43 SYD to LDH 9.19 hours, 15/04/43 test flight LDH .50 hours, 16/04/23 LDH to SYD 4.28 hours.

On the 14/04/1943 the locals on Lord Howe Island were surprised by the arrival of a TEAL Empire boat, she had
completed what will probably stand forever as one of the longest flights from Sydney to Lord Howe Island, 9 hours
19 mins!

The machine was supposed to be flying Sydney to New Zealand but ran into engine problems, a decision was made
to divert to the nearest location, the lagoon on Lord Howe Island! From memory I may still have this interview I did
with Laurie somewhere, would have been some twenty five years ago? I also interviewed one of the RAAF Catalina
crews who flew out to the island to bring fuel and transport the passengers.

As you will see Awarua was only on the island for around three days, they were worried the Japanese or Germans
may have discovered her!

I would love to hear from anyone else who may be able to contribute or add to this story, thanks folks?



Made a RC model of ZK-AMC, note she has a gun turret which she was briefly trialed with!

[Dave Homewood]

Oscar Garden's daughter Mary Garden is a member of this forum. She has written a biography of her father, Sundowner of the Sky.

[awarua4047]

I have that book thanks Dave